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Geist

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Just to let you know Niceguy -- I have no idea what causes homosexuality and do not have strong feelings one way or the other about whether it is biological or not. I do know that just about NOBODY credible cites Freud's theories on development of homosexuality anymore or anything he has written about women. He is, however, still well respected for having realized that human beings are motivated by their unconscious.

I am bisexual myself and who knows why? I will admit that I have not done a recent search of the scientific journals about homosexuality, but what I am referring to when I say that the biological basis for homosexuality has not been proven is that the gay gene has not been found. The only other studies about a biological basis for homosexuality that I can recall right now are about gay men's brains supposedly being a different size than straight men's brains. There may have been some twin studies too??

So maybe you have stayed on top of the research better than I have --- so what is the scientific evidence that leans toward a biological explanation? Not a snarky question -- I'm too busy trying to finish my lit. degree to follow all of the science.

Oh and edited to add that I would be far from quoting any religious or political propaganda that is anti-homosexual: I think that you may be referring to evangelical faiths that say that people choose to sin by acting on their homosexual desires blahblahblah ... Sure hope that you don't have me or Fifi confused with those folks :twisted:

EDITED AGAIN -- O.K. -- I hadn't read your entire post - DUH - so you are talking about the religious people.

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Eh, you've misunderstood me so greatly, that I'm not even going to ATTEMPT to untangle whatever the hell you just said abuot sexuality! ;)

However, jeezus....look up "aversion therapy." Did you know that you can REVERSE the INBRED desire of wolves to kill off livestock by poisoning one with lithium and allowing the wolves to eat it? The wolves will then lose their desire to hunt the livestock because they are classically conditioned to the unplesantry of nausea. Look it up. You CAN reverse classical conditioning. Look up the term "extinction." It can be eliminated, reversed or changed. Do a little research on it and you'll see.

My dog won't eat raw meat because he knows I put medication in it. Ta dah. I conditioned him NOT to like it by accident. The conditioning overrides his "desire" or "behavior" and creates a new one.

All I will say about the "gay" thing (to whoever) is this:

"Gay" is CULTURAL WORD. Period. We are one of the ONLY cultures who has "gay and straight." Either you're one or you're the "other." We make this "other" group to explain things that we cannot understand. You keep using the word "gay," but that's relative to our culture ONLY.

And? CULTURALLY, people can have a "tendency" as well. It is not all "genetic" and I will never buy that line.

I never said you could condition someone to be "gay," so I'm not even going to offer my thoughts on that.

For the record, I have intense dislike of the word "shenanigans." It implies trickery and I do not like the implication that I am playing semantics, for I am not. No one around my part of the woods ever uses it.....probably because it's gay. :twisted:

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Oh and I thought that I'd latch on to this part of Aku's post to say that I never meant to say that either.

I never said you could condition someone to be "gay," so I'm not even going to offer my thoughts on that.
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Fair enough on my use of the word "gay." Clumsy and arbitrary.

But just to clear up a few things -

Homo and hereosexuality do imply exclusion. They imply one or the other. I'm not saying that there aren't other degrees (bi, pan, a, etc...). Those are worth discussing, but I'm not going so far to say that any statment or opinion that applies to homo or hetero sexuality necessarily applies to bi/pan/a/etc... I believe that homo-sexulaity (which implies an exclusive preference) and (for example) bi-sexuality (which implies the lack of a clear or exclusive preference) are very different phenomonona. For better or worse, my post/points were only meant to appliy to homosexuality.

Also -

Aku - duely noted on "Shenanigans." I'll be more careful. I certainly didn't mean to imply deceit on your part.

Saph - not sure how you really feel about sexualty. I stole your point simply because I felt the converse stated very well what I was trying to say. It was not my intention mean to put words in your mouth.

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;) It's VERY hard to have a debate on the forum, without the OMG, are they PISSED OFF?! sometimes coming up becuase tone of voice does NOT exist here. But man, i LOVE debates! :twisted:
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No worries! ;) You know I don't take anything in a debate "personally," anyway! :twisted:

Oh yeah, I know. It's still important to say it though. No bad blood and all.

We'll def have to discuss our views on "sexuality" at some point in the future (dif thread though). I'm really interested to better understand your positions/views there. I didn't think we were that far apart, but apparenlty...

(And it's possible that your understading of my views is just as off as mine is of yours. A couple recent (and clumsily written) posts of mine having something to do with that! ;) )

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