(Non)Religious background

[tma]

This may be a topic of debate, but I've always felt that agnostics are those who believe that we can't know if god exists or not. An Atheist, on the other hand, is simply someone who simply lacks a belief in one. In that regard, agnostics can consider themselves to also be atheists by definition, but agnosticism is simply a more specific way of describing their views on the matter.

That's interesting. I've thought that agnostics are open to the idea that there may be a deity/ "higher power" out there. Whether or not they specifically *care* is another matter. Whereas, atheists flat out believe that there *is* NO "higher power"/ deity/ god.

Obviously, as is true with any other "label", part of the definition comes from self-identification.

[Mash]

This may be a topic of debate, but I've always felt that agnostics are those who believe that we can't know if god exists or not. An Atheist, on the other hand, is simply someone who simply lacks a belief in one. In that regard, agnostics can consider themselves to also be atheists by definition, but agnosticism is simply a more specific way of describing their views on the matter.

That's interesting. I've thought that agnostics are open to the idea that there may be a deity/ "higher power" out there. Whether or not they specifically *care* is another matter. Whereas, atheists flat out believe that there *is* NO "higher power"/ deity/ god.

Obviously, as is true with any other "label", part of the definition comes from self-identification.

Atheism, as a whole, is simply a lack of belief. It's the opposite of theism which is belief.

Most of it is open simply to what people tend to self-identify as. However, the technical definition of agnosticism is the belief that we can't or won't know if god exists. An Atheist can be open to the idea of a god existing, but simply lacks belief in one, or they can be someone who staunchly believes that there is no god. It's a pretty broad term.

[tma]

Atheism, as a whole, is simply a lack of belief. It's the opposite of theism which is belief.

I was thinking "a" = against and theism = belief in Divine

A la Webster's

Definition of ATHEISM

1

archaic

:

ungodliness

,

wickedness

2

a

:

a disbelief in the existence of deity

b

:

the doctrine that there is no deity

Not that it really matters- am just word nerd person sometimes.

*flees*

[Jorm]

I'm with Mash on this. At least as far as what I personally mean when I say I'm agnostic. I don't mean that I'm unsure, or I'm still deciding. I mean that it is impossible to prove one way or another and it would be arrogant of me as a human to claim to know the nature of the universe. I mean that, I personally do not believe that an intelligent creator exists, but that I acknowledge the fact that it is theoretically possible that such a thing does exist.

I've pretty much stopped using the term agnostic to describe myself though because of just such misunderstandings being really prevalent among both theists and staunch atheists. Now I generally refer to myself as a humanist instead. Although I do sometimes tell people I'm a militant agnostic. I don't know and neither do you!

[Mash]

If we were to break the word down... when you see words structured like that (asymmetrical, atheist, anonymous, apolitical, anarchy) and see the 'a' or 'an' in front, those prefixes mean 'not' or 'without'. So non-symmetical(asymmetrical), non-political(apolitical), without a ruler (anarchy / an-arkhos), without a name (anonymous / an-onoma).

In this case, it's atheist, which when broken down means 'non-theist' or without theism. Theism of course is simply belief in a god. So an atheist is someone without belief, or a non-believer.

[tma]

Was off. My apologies, if I came off bad. I can admit to being wrong on occasion.

Anyway.... won't thread-jack, just wanted to apologise.

[•.*°•☆. Q .☆•°*.•]

If we were to break the word down... when you see words structured like that (asymmetrical, atheist, anonymous, apolitical, anarchy) and see the 'a' or 'an' in front, those prefixes mean 'not' or 'without'. So non-symmetical(asymmetrical), non-political(apolitical), without a ruler (anarchy / an-arkhos), without a name (anonymous / an-onoma).

In this case, it's atheist, which when broken down means 'non-theist' or without theism. Theism of course is simply belief in a god. So an atheist is someone without belief, or a non-believer.

Oh my god, Mash, Talk nerdy to me

[Mash]

Honestly, it doesn't even matter. As far as religious identification goes, the whole topic is so... vague, ya know?

Really it's more about how you feel about it more than how you label yourself. I have a number of friends who basically share my view, but prefer to call themselves agnostic rather than atheist.

[Mr Sneezy]

Staunch atheist. I have a vague recollection of going to Christian Endeavour when I was about 4, but as I grew up, I realised that I don't have to believe in some mythical being in the sky or be "brainwashed" by having to believe in what others do.

[count tiszula]

I was raised as a fairly low Anglican, and eventually discovered that for centuries most of my ancestors had been the most extreme of Prots, including Puritans and even Methodists. Then ritualism came.

Anyway, when young I was more tempted by the Scarlet Woman, but now I am not really practising at all, except for arguing with Jehovah's Witnesses and watching Midnight Mass on the telly.

I'm with tma on the agnostic issue, except she seems to have abandoned her position. Of course it is true that most agnostics are really atheists, as otherwise many of them would have embraced Pascal's Wager and be behaving as Theists.

[Mash]

I'm with tma on the agnostic issue, except she seems to have abandoned her position. Of course it is true that most agnostics are really atheists, as otherwise many of them would have embraced Pascal's Wager and be behaving as Theists.

In that case I was simply relaying the strict definition of the word.

If we were to break down the word, agnostic simply means 'without knowledge', however. Atheism and Agnosticism seem to overlap in so many ways that it really seems to be more up to personal preference. An Agnostic could be someone who feels that we can't know if God exists, or they could be someone who simply doesn't claim to know anything at all. Similarly, an Atheist could be someone who simply lacks belief, or it could be someone who believes that no higher power exists.

I think in this case it's more about how you want to label yourself more than technical definitions.

[count tiszula]

This is getting very abstruse, but, while English philology rules that usage is all, my own view is that the history of the word is important too.

"Atheism" was invented in Europe in about the C16 to deal with the previously impossible concept that God did not exist.{Actually Anselm had already dealt with the biblical "dixit insipiens in corde suo ; non est deus"]. Much later, some people who did not want to be lumped in with atheists invented the word "agnostic " to claim that they simply did not know whether God existed or not. Gnostic is an adjective referring to knowing, and a related word.

All these words about mental processes are fascinating. "Mind the gap" uses the same early root as mental. And why does "cognosco" appear to be an inchoative form of know?

[AngelEyes]

I am a preacher's daughter. LOL. Methodist to be specific. So obviously raised in the church, baptized, confirmed. My mom was also methodist and obviously the preacher's wife, but she wasn't the typical one. She rarely went to church after I was about 10, but I was still expected to. She had the belief, just not the practice, lol. For being a preacher my dad was Super Awesome. We were raised Methodist but taught to think for ourselves. We were educated on other denominations and other religions.

In middle school I dabbled in Wicca and paganism. I actually had some of my classmates convinced I could do spells. It was a riot. My dad humored me until he started getting flack about it from people and even then he just said to "tone it down a bit". LOL. And I always found it much easier to believe in Pantheons than One True God. I followed Greek Mythology and then Norse Mythology for a while. And yes I have too much imagination and/or am delusional but I was also quite willing to accept Pantheons/Mythologys from fictional books. My favorite being David Eddings Elenium/Tamuli series.

As I got older I became generally disillusioned with organized religion as a whole. It just seems like there's so much trouble over it. Everybody fights about who said what and what they meant in an old book. (Yes I am a heathen, cue music as I go straight to hell!) LOL.

So I've decided my view is that all religions are right for the person who believes in them. If you are a Christian, then Christianity is the right religion for you. If you are Muslim, then that is the right religion for you. If you are Jewish, Pagan, Buddhist, Atheist, whatever, it's right for YOU. That doesn't mean you get to shove it on anybody else. They already have what's right for them and it may or may not be the same as yours. If we could all just get over this, everybody has to be the same belief, the world would get along so much better.

Wow. That certainly got preachy. LOL. I will note here, that that is my view. If it's not yours, great! Variety is the spice of life!

[Nola]

I finally decided to vote in this poll, haha.

I'm Catholic, born and raised, was baptized, confirmed all of it. My family is very old fashioned; we are second generation American from Czechoslovakia, and thus, it is very engraved in our family to be a part of the church. I still go to mass, and even confession twice a year. As a youngster I never thought anything of it, going to a Catholic school, CCD etc. was just part of life. One of my best friends wasn't Catholic, but she was spiritual if that makes sense, and she believed in guardian angels, which I thought was primarily a Catholic thing (I don't believe in them, at least I don't think so), so I assumed that people who didn't go to church still believed church-y things, if that makes sense. (Please, no haters, I know I was naive then).

Then when I went to college, everything changed and I realized that there was a lot more out there. And I had a lot of bad experiences with people shoving their religions and their lack of religions down my throat. Assuming I was an idiot for attending mass, and assuming I was a bigot because of what *some* Catholics believe. This is the reason why I was reluctant to respond to this thread because I don't want to be labeled as a bigot or an idiot.

I still consider myself Catholic, but as I've said before, to me Catholicism, to me, is more of my ethnicity than it is a religion. I like the traditions within the Church, like giving up things/participating in Lent, but I don't agree with many things within it, either. I think priests should get married, I think people who are gay are born that way and should get married, hell, I think anyone should have the right to be married. I'm also staunchly pro-choice, believe that those that commit suicide would not be kept out of heaven and I hate the word 'submissive' so so much. But, I don't consider those things to be big enough reasons to pull me away from the Church and I don't think anyone else should try to make that decision for anyone, either.

In fact, this one idiot that I dated thought it was ridiculous for a woman in science to ever go to church, to which I replied that I compartmentalize as any person should. I mean, we don't take our marital problems to work, why the hell would we take our religious teachings into work? (He also told me he kept forgetting I was smart, well, that was his strike three!) Anyways, rant over....

I know I probably should, but I just don't question my faith or the religion itself. I don't believe that Jonah was literally in the body of a whale for three days; I don't (or maybe can't is the better word) believe a lot of the other stories in the Bible either. Honestly, we were never forced to read it, so I only know the stories that are read aloud in Mass. I never even question whether I believe in God or Jesus, perhaps because I'm afraid of what I'll discover about myself, I don't know. I really would like to believe in heaven, though, mostly to think that my grandma is there, but as for me personally, I don't want to go if my pets aren't there.

So maybe I'm a 'bad Catholic', but yeah, I still very much identify as Catholic.

[VividBubbles!]

Wow, this is so interesting! As I am currently living in a very Christian dominated area, I never really get to discuss religion with most of my friends because they've been raised with it and believe in it strongly.

I, personally, have been raised in a more agnostic household, my only relative who ever went to church regularly being my great-grandmother. (We do celebrate Christmas and Easter, but only because they're traditions and they're fun. If they weren't fun, we wouldn't celebrate them.) My best friend's family is SUPER Christian (so Christian that her mom thinks I'm a bad influence on her because I don't go to church), so I do go to her church on occasion for their Wednesday teen meetings to spend time with her. I am, however, not very fond of them as the first time I went they had a "pray for the gay" session and the pastor made fun of a man he met for believing in Greek gods. I found it all just really offensive. Now every time I go I just belittle the pastor in my head to pass the time. I know it's rude, but after my first experience I can't really help it.

Currently I consider myself an atheist. Unless there is ever any solid proof that can be confirmed with scientific testing, I will never believe in any higher power. I certainly hope that there is something after death and that the bad do get punished, but until it is scientifically proven, I can't believe in it.

[tenderwarrior]

So I've decided my view is that all religions are right for the person who believes in them. If you are a Christian, then Christianity is the right religion for you. If you are Muslim, then that is the right religion for you. If you are Jewish, Pagan, Buddhist, Atheist, whatever, it's right for YOU. That doesn't mean you get to shove it on anybody else. They already have what's right for them and it may or may not be the same as yours. If we could all just get over this, everybody has to be the same belief, the world would get along so much better.

I believe this 100% and can people that aren't religious stop making fun of people that are? Really, it's immature and obnoxious. I understand that many religious groups don't look fondly on Atheists and Agnostics but being an asshole about it isn't the best way to handle the situation. Also if someone says they're keeping you in your prayers and you go OH MY GOD YOU ARE SUCH AN IDIOT FOR BELIEVING IN THAT. GOD DOESN'T EXIST. I DON'T EVEN WANT YOUR PRAYERS!!! You're being a jerk. That person genuinely cares about you and keeping you in their prayers is a big thing for them. Just be polite about it. I'm not religious but damn, both nonreligious and religious people can be asses.

[tma]

So I've decided my view is that all religions are right for the person who believes in them. If you are a Christian, then Christianity is the right religion for you. If you are Muslim, then that is the right religion for you. If you are Jewish, Pagan, Buddhist, Atheist, whatever, it's right for YOU. That doesn't mean you get to shove it on anybody else. They already have what's right for them and it may or may not be the same as yours. If we could all just get over this, everybody has to be the same belief, the world would get along so much better.

I believe this 100% and can people that aren't religious stop making fun of people that are? Really, it's immature and obnoxious. I understand that many religious groups don't look fondly on Atheists and Agnostics but being an asshole about it isn't the best way to handle the situation. Also if someone says they're keeping you in your prayers and you go OH MY GOD YOU ARE SUCH AN IDIOT FOR BELIEVING IN THAT. GOD DOESN'T EXIST. I DON'T EVEN WANT YOUR PRAYERS!!! You're being a jerk. That person genuinely cares about you and keeping you in their prayers is a big thing for them. Just be polite about it. I'm not religious but damn, both nonreligious and religious people can be asses.

As someone whose faith tradition happens to be Christian, but who is VERY much aware that I do NOT have all knowledge of the Universe, and I like to learn and grow in different ways from the way that other's experience reality and the Universe- I SOOOO much appreciate that.

I respect the fact that other people have their own beliefs and I don't force mine. I can *state* what they are- (if it is an appropriate context to do so), but I leave room to dialogue. I don't belittle people for not having a faith tradition or even for having some *major* issues with religion, including my tradition. Trust me a lot of people who identify as Christians REALLY piss me off with some of the nonsense that they say and/or do. It's just that it really bothers me when people act like I'm automatically a bigot and/or am a giant idiot for having faith.

Showing respect even when you don't agree is a good thing.

And yes- if someone is wishing you well, and/or is doing something that is within their traditions to seek your well-being (without trying to force conversion or force you to change yourself) please be gracious.

[Heavy-Chevy]

My mother's side of the family was Roman Catholic and my father's side was Jewish, although my dad has been non-practicing since his late teens. So I was raised to be Catholic but as I got into my early 20's I started questioning a lot of the stuff I was hearing and reading. Today, I'm mostly agnostic with some inclination toward Atheism.

[CHOCOLATE <3]

The bulk of my experience with Christianity has by far been of the hateful, extremist, or "preachy" nature

Ugh. Yeah.

I'm Christian, but am in no way hateful, extreme (I guess I would be considered that because of my views, but I don't go around forcing them on anybody) or preachy...I'm really sorry to anybody who's felt judged by us, I promise not every Christian is that way

[AngelEyes]

lso if someone says they're keeping you in your prayers and you go OH MY GOD YOU ARE SUCH AN IDIOT FOR BELIEVING IN THAT. GOD DOESN'T EXIST. I DON'T EVEN WANT YOUR PRAYERS!!! You're being a jerk. That person genuinely cares about you and keeping you in their prayers is a big thing for them. Just be polite about it.

Exactly! Along with that I've seen people of religious faith who are going through rough times ask for prayers and get really rude responses from non religious people. My thought is, if you aren't into praying and that sort of thing, just say, I'll keep you in my thoughts. It lets them know you care and takes the religion out of it without making it into a big issue.

[Chanel_no5]

Well, hang on, this is complicated. My paternal grandparents were incredibly Christian. Like, cult-Christian. My dad is an atheist. My maternal grandparents were agnostics. My mother has a New Age-y/Spritualism/Buddhism mix of beliefs. The school I went to was "casually" Christian and I was going to Christian activities for kids as I grew up.

I am now a convinced Spritualist who believes fiercely in science alongside of a higher power. I am convinced there is something more, but I don't believe in purgatory (I believe we review our own life after we pass over, and I believe we - our better selves, so to speak - are the only ones who judge us). I don't believe in hell. I do believe in reincarnation. And I do believe there is some kind of heaven, but I doubt it's a physical place... I believe it's a different state of mind. Like, when a match burns out, there is smoke. Then the smoke disappears. But nothing actually disappears, does it? I think that's what our minds are like. We just change into something else.

That's my belief. But don't worry, I won't draw arms trying to force it upon you. Because the truth is, none of us really know for sure until we're there. Maybe we're all right and it is whatever we believe it is?

[Leas]

I wasn't brought up any religion! My Mum is a Catholic and my Dad a Protestant. Neither of them practise this however.

I am atheist however!

So I voted other and Atheism

[KazeNoUirusu]

My mother is Jewish and my father was raised Methodist, but was never really that religious. So as I grew up, I actually got to celebrate both sets of holidays, which was kind of cool. XD (It didn't mean more presents, honest. It just meant they were spread out over a long period of time.)

But because my dad wasn't actually into Christianity and my mom was into Judaism, Judaism's influence over me quickly proved to be a lot stronger. I also kind of just liked feeling different. (I live in a 99.9% Christian community.) So soon enough, I was expressing interest in going to Hebrew school at the local synagogue and studying to have a Bat Mitzvah.

And I did. And I'm glad I did. But as of late, my spirituality has been, uh, little to none. I just don't feel like I need it, I guess. That may change. But currently, I'm pretty undecided on whether there's any kind of god. And I'm cool with that.

But being the nerdish multiculturalist that I am, I'm still really into Jewish culture. cx It's sort of off-and-on, but it's flared up lately because I've gotten into A Night in the Old Marketplace, a musical based on an old Yiddish play. I actually wrote and posted a fanfic for it on the appropriate section of the forum. ^^;

[Celest]

Am I the only one here who was brought up with Buddhism? Well... most of people in my country are Buddhist, although they are not very strict.

And I think I'll stay like this. Or maybe I'll become an atheist. I don't know yet

[Sitruuna]

While both my parents are part of the Church (different churches) and I was baptist as a baby, too, my bringong up wasn't religious. I won't say it would have been atheistic not agnostic either. Religion wasn't a topic we would have discussed. It just wasn't something that matter I suppose. I don't even know whether or not my parents believe in the Christian god or anyhing else for that matter.

The most religious things ever taught to me or discussed were stuff like "my [my mother explaining so her] grandmother used to tell us when we were kids that thunder comes from the wheels of Ukko's wagon/what-ever-the-right-word-is bumping and ratling on the rough surface of clouds" and that when fishing you should always recite a certain spell and spit in the water as you swing your fishing-stuff and it would bring good luck. I could have been a "lets make this more fun for the kids" thing rather than a religious thing.

And the "religion I practice": my view on religeon is agnostic, if that's the proper way to say it.