Compulsory age (range) on profiles?

[Clark Kent]

This post is the first in a while to grab my attention and certainly falls into the fairly serious bracket. I think over the (many) years i have been around here and having survived the various incarnations of this forum previously i have seen this community evolve into something special.

However, as someone of some of say..a mid age range? it is slightly disconcerting that there are certain things that can happen interaction wise on - let's face facts and remember here - a FETISH website.

Just because it doesn't involve..how can i put this...boobs and bottoms and any other sexually deviant fetish as seen through the public eye, doesn't make it any less of a fetish for those who belong to this wonderful community and you absolutely cannot join any other sexual fetish type website online without clarifying your age as being over consensual for your location .

As much as u18 members may all be nice to chat to and write great stories about Harry Potter and use superb talent to draw pictures of a cartoon character and RP until the cows come home there is still something inherently wrong about someone u18 interacting on a fetish website with those much older. I'm not just talking 18. There is anything up from 13.

Yes you can lie about your age, you can't police everything and a lot, myself included, have made some friends for life here but for the vast majority the subject matter at hand here is effectively "porn". It may be our version of it and i'm all for it but if children are to be allowed here i would feel more comfortable if there was some way to differentiate. Most times i don't know who i am talking to in the chat room and although not talking "on topic" i have been given a fright by some whose profile i have checked and their aged showed as 14/15/16.

The +18 stuff is hidden away with warnings all over it and the rp stuff about young characters is able to dominate. If kids as young as 13 are allowed here then i agree with and applaud this decision of course. It should be hidden, however i think what it seems people would be more comfortable with is a way that can protect the kids in our community (u18) - you have to draw a line somewhere - and not leave them open to any kind of predatorial attack in a sexual way. (Reminder again - this IS a SEXUAL FETISH community).

Still it is (almost) just as easy for me to ignore and not read posts that i think will be about u18 content but there are also others who will get caught out and dare i say it....those old enough to know better but prefer that content. You don't have to be chatting sexually explicitly, just "on topic" conversation would count as being inappropriate with a minor within our world. "Real" sexual content would barely spark much interest here.

I do pop in the chat room and it may be worth thinking about what age range should be allowed access - Just like a pub. Of course people underage will get in but it has never killed anyone to wait until they are a certain age to be able to access the delights adulthood can offer.

I could go on and on about the legalities and how uncomfortable i am with certain things on here that involve what i would class as "children" but i think you get my point. Let's just remember where we are and why we initially found this site and take a moment to think about how in any other situation an adult would need to be responsible for their actions regarding the interactions sexually (on a FETISH site) with children.

Just my opinions and hastily put together admittedly so i hope they are coherent without too much repetition.

As they say" i disagree with everything you have to say but will fight to the death for your right to say them".

My opinions won't change the world and i will still be active at this site but sometimes there is a conversation worth adding too.

Rambling now.....okbye!!! xx

[Heathcliff]

However, I'm strongly opposed to making this site 18+, I needed to join when I was 14, it wasn't enough just to browse, I needed to interact!

Just a nudge to try and keep this on topic... this thread was only supposed to be about displaying ages in forum profiles, not in any way to argue "the forum should be 18+ only."

It has been made clear in the past that the policy of allowing under 18s to join is not going to change. Don't worry, nobody is going to make the forum 18+ only tomorrow! I've never even asked the staff to consider doing that (I raised a theoretical point about how I would set the rules if I created my own forum, which is not quite the same thing).

So please, let's keep the discussion focussed on the issue of profile ages. Thank you!

[Jorm]

DISCLAIMER: I have not read all of the comments in this thread, so some (or all) of this may be irrelevant or already addressed at this point, but I wanted to add a few thoughts anyway.

1. Personally, I'm much less concerned about the ages of specific members, whether I interact with them or not, than I am about the ages of the subjects of observations, stories, and artwork. I want to know if the material I'm about to look at is ABOUT someone who is under age, but by and large I don't much care how old the person POSTING the material is. Granted, that's obviously just me, and it's probably born in large part from my being pretty much asexual and so not viewing any members, regardless of their age, in a sexual light. But still, I'm not sure that forcing under age members to list their age would really have any beneficial effect. Adults accidentally discussing things they wouldn't normally with a minor, because they don't realize the person is a minor, is ultimately not particularly dangerous as far as I can see. It's the adults who are looking for sexual interaction with minors that are a real concern, and having minors be required to list themselves as minors, is only going to make it easier for those people. If I was a minor on this forum, I sure as hell wouldn't want to post my age, it'd be like putting a big neon target for pedophiles on my forehead. Allowing minors to keep their age hidden probably protects them more than making them share it would.

2. Regarding under age members being welcome on the forum in general: 18 as the line between minor and adult is neither a world-wide standard, nor based on much of anything scientific. It's essentially arbitrary, and in terms of sexual awareness, pretty much meaningless. In many places the age of sexual consent is 16, not 18, anyway. And more importantly, teenagers are sexual. Regardless of whether they're sexually active, or what their level of sexual awareness and maturity is, most teenagers are sexual beings, who experience sexual interests and arousal, and as such, I don't see how they have any less right to access a forum like this than anyone over 18. There's nothing wrong with teenagers indulging and exploring their sexuality, it's both normal and healthy. It's not like we're a prostitution service, we're a community, and a safe and supportive environment for younger people to express and indulge their sexual interests is a GOOD thing. Allowing minors on the forum is not the problem, allowing sexual predators on the forum is the problem.

[Bondi]

As someone who is HUGE on privacy in this forum and in general (I once objected to a forum being set up that publicly displayed IP addresses for anyone to see), I have absolutely no problem with a field that indicates under 18 or over 18 that members are required to answer. If I run for president in 10, 20, or 30 years, then my ISP knows that I was on these sites right now. It will come out. It's probably better that I don't run for president, which I probably won't ever do. I don't even care that everyone on this forum knows that I'm a 34-year-old man. There are plenty of other 34-year-old men in my location, I'm sure. How small would your country have to be where someone could narrow you down solely by your age? I am rambling now. I will just say that I don't have a problem with the field that has been suggested in this thread.

[Sass]

I am not very concerned that anyone will find out who I am on this site even if I gave more details than my age, for people to find you on this site they would have to know this fetish is even a thing, and most people don't. And if there was some government body that went through all fetish sites and tracked down who all the members are, there is probably not, but if there was... wouldn't you rather they find that the site was guidelines for interactions between U18s and 18+?

[Dye]

I'm probably pretty easy to find elsewhere on the internet, and that would be the same even with my age not on my profile.

Here's something interesting though, I actually first joined here at 11 years old. I got booted off soon after, which is completely fine.

The older I grow, the more I realise that U18 obs/stories are absolutely not something I want to be reading about. It just feels... wrong.

I felt totally fine reading it when I was around that age range, when I was 13, 14, 15, etc, I happily read obs and stories containing people of that age.

Stories/art written or drawn by U18 members are totally fine, it's just content that contains people under the age of 18 that doesn't feel right, now. And that's the thing. If someone's age isn't put on their profile, or even the range of U18 if they're not comfortable with putting their exact age, how is anyone to know if what they're reading is, essentially, illegal? Or at least incredibly morally wrong. Adults don't want to read content containing U18s.

Man, feels weird to say I'm an adult. I don't think I'm gonna get used to it any time soon.

[Shay]

Ok my two cents. Obviously I don't personally have a problem with posting my age because I already have, but I can understand why others would be uncomfortable with it. I think the range requirement would be good, especially because it would mean that a birthday wouldn't be required to verify age. For me not wanting others to know my birthday isn't an issue of privacy. It's more of an issue of birthday related anxiety and not wanting people to draw attention to my birthday and this would be a problem for me even if I put in a fake date.

I only saw one other person mention the chatroom and getting gently warned to drop a fetish conversation with a minor. My concerns about the chatroom are that you cannot see anyone's age in the chatroom even if they have it listed in their profile. I certainly don't have the patience to look up everyone's age on the main forum if I can't remember how old they are. I'm sure it's probably a software limitation and the only way I can think of to deal with this that works with what the chatroom can do is name colors. Name colors show up in the chatroom, so what does everyone think of the idea of making a special name color for anyone who is under 18 so they can be easily recognized in the chatroom?

Edit: This is my 3000th post. Hooray!!!

[Leafeon78]

Even though I don't have access yet I would think it's a good idea to have colour codes for minors so it's easier to avoid adult content with them.

[High on Lullabies]

Dear All

The staff would like to thank everyone for their interesting and varied opinions expressed in this thread and elsewhere on the forum, which we always encourage. As has been noted, there isn't a perfect solution that would satisfy everyone and we always try to balance the needs of all members (old and new, young and not so young).

This topic has of course been considered by the staff on several occasions in the past, but the composition of the staff gradually evolves over time and the current staff have now concluded their discussions on this. The debate tried to consider all angles and some new ideas were put forward to see if they may work better than the existing system.

Our conclusion was that the balance is currently about right between encouraging our younger members, by allowing them to participate fully on the main boards, while at the same time protecting them by being on the look out (with the help of the rest of the membership) for inappropriate behaviour towards them.

The ideas we discussed, some suggested by members and some added to by ourselves, all had problems associated with them, such that although they all had at least some merit, in our opinion none of them were clearly better than the current position.

There are, however, some minor changes that we'd like to institute that will hopefully address some of the concerns raised by members. There has been a precedent set since the inception of the Forum that no member would be required to display their actual age. However, as our membership grows and more young members join our ranks, it has become clear there is desire for more transparency regarding the ages of members. Because of this, we have instituted an "age range" system. In your profile settings, you will now find a field in which you can select an age range from 13-17, 18-24, 25-30, 31-40, 40+, Not Telling. We hope that by not forcing members to display a specific age, there will be a greater comfort level with revealing an age demographic.

We highly encourage all members to complete this field. It will display under your username on all posts where the current AGE: field is displayed. It is our hope that this method respects your privacy by not requiring a birthdate or specific ages and also allows for more comfortable and appropriate interactions between all members. Please be advised that full birth dates will still be required when applying for Adult or Youth Board membership (you can always fill this in, apply, and remove it once access is granted).

We acknowledge that our little community is a diverse and utterly unique place where each of us come for a variety of reasons. There is no system that will make the Forum perfect for everyone because of our diverse membership, but we appreciate and discuss every single suggestion. We would stress that this was not a decision taken lightly and we do totally understand some of the concerns expressed.

Once again, we thank all members for putting forward their opinions on this difficult topic.

The SFF Staff

PS - for information, we provide links to previous discussions on the topic as follows:

HoL's post (number 44) here - the majority of this is still relevant

Discussion in 2014 - this was on the Adult Board, so unfortunately, not all members will be able to see it (basically, a member asked if all observations could be categorised by age and some of the problems with this were highlighted)

[Blah!?]

With the inclusion of the "not telling" option, this functionally changes virtually nothing.

[Heathcliff]

As I started this thread, I just wanted to say thank you to the staff for making this change. I do understand that any change to the status quo takes work for the staff, and I appreciate them adding this new age range setting. I like the feature and- even though it isn't compulsory- I hope people will choose to use it.

With the inclusion of the "not telling" option, this functionally changes virtually nothing.

Yeah, I understand this point of view- and you know that my personal choice would be not to have the "Not telling" option. However, sometimes you have to compromise and I like the compromise the staff have come up with. Also, when this thread was getting more heated, I thought we may be heading for a "status quo is fine, nothing will change" conclusion- so I'm glad to have something change, even if it is a voluntary feature.

It's possible that the age range feature will encourage more people to reveal their realistic age range, even if there are some who always choose not to reveal any age information. That, to me, would be a positive result.

[froglatte]

With the inclusion of the "not telling" option, this functionally changes virtually nothing.

I like the "not telling" option because it sounds like a little child having a temper tantrum. Thus, if someone chooses "not telling" I'm going to assume it's either someone young and immature who doesn't want to reveal their age because "you can't make me" or it's an older member who may be here to creep on younger members and wants to hide. Unfair assumptions most likely, but the "not telling" is a definite red flag for any forum interaction. Thanks, staff.

[Leafeon78]

I like how people think because someone chooses not telling their immature.

[bloom]

With the inclusion of the "not telling" option, this functionally changes virtually nothing.

I like the "not telling" option because it sounds like a little child having a temper tantrum. Thus, if someone chooses "not telling" I'm going to assume it's either someone young and immature who doesn't want to reveal their age because "you can't make me" or it's an older member who may be here to creep on younger members and wants to hide. Unfair assumptions most likely, but the "not telling" is a definite red flag for any forum interaction. Thanks, staff.

You know what, I felt the same way as Blah at first, but you make a brilliant point - I'll just not have any close contact with anybody who chooses the "Not Telling" option. There's no reason to obfuscate one's age like that.

[Chanel_no5]

Thus, if someone chooses "not telling" I'm going to assume it's either someone young and immature who doesn't want to reveal their age because "you can't make me" or it's an older member who may be here to creep on younger members and wants to hide.

I'm flattered.

[Emily]

I like the juxtaposition of the above two posts.

ETA: Ah, never mind. I was too late. But nonetheless, I will continue to enlighten myself quietly as this discussion continues.

[SpookyScarySkeleton]

Thus, if someone chooses "not telling" I'm going to assume it's either someone young and immature who doesn't want to reveal their age because "you can't make me" or it's an older member who may be here to creep on younger members and wants to hide.

I'm flattered.

Chanel, I know you're not a creep. You're awesome

[Joal 555]

This is a very important thread to a lot of members - can we keep it civil and on the topic please.

Thank you for your attention.

[Chanel_no5]

Thus, if someone chooses "not telling" I'm going to assume it's either someone young and immature who doesn't want to reveal their age because "you can't make me" or it's an older member who may be here to creep on younger members and wants to hide.

I'm flattered.

Chanel, I know you're not a creep. You're awesome

Thank you. I would return that hug if I wasn't scared people might misinterpret it.

[tma]

Thus, if someone chooses "not telling" I'm going to assume it's either someone young and immature who doesn't want to reveal their age because "you can't make me" or it's an older member who may be here to creep on younger members and wants to hide. Unfair assumptions most likely, but the "not telling" is a definite red flag for any forum interaction.

Actually.. that might be in my head as well (in *certain* cases). I know that it is unfair of me to make assumptions like that, however, it would make me wonder a bit sometimes. Not necessarily a "red flag" for *me* personally, just...

And I *know* the Chanel is just

BTW- Thank you Staff- y'all are made of awesomesauce and and I you muchly!!

[Bruyere]

With the inclusion of the "not telling" option, this functionally changes virtually nothing.

Yeah, I'm not really sure what the point of changing it is at all. I'm a little disappointed tbh.

Thus, if someone chooses "not telling" I'm going to assume it's either someone young and immature who doesn't want to reveal their age because "you can't make me" or it's an older member who may be here to creep on younger members and wants to hide. Unfair assumptions most likely, but the "not telling" is a definite red flag for any forum interaction.

I'm sure there are valid reasons for people wanting to keep their age secret but I will probably have a certain amount of skepticism towards these members as well as being wary for my own part. There are certain things, ways of phrasing things that will be different depending on the age of the person you're talking to, especially on a forum like this. Not having that information means I am more likely to just step away from those interactions altogether. This will especially be the case with newer members where there is less context (not really the word I'm looking for but eh) to work out how old they are.

[Leafeon78]

Just like the rest said theirs reasons people hide their real age but I don't think it will bring more people to reveal their age.

[Shay]

Um ok. I was under the impression that the age range field was supposed to be in addition to the field where you can type out your exact age rather than replacing it. Maybe I'm just weird, but I'm actually more comfortable putting in my exact age than using a range. I can't state exactly why the range thing makes me uncomfortable and maybe it's just because of the way the ages are broken down, but I'd really rather just put my exact age in. Would it be too much to ask to have fields for an exact age and a range available as an option?

Also I know that I was kind of late to the game when I brought up the issues regarding the chatroom and the suggestion about a special name color for underage members. I was just wondering if this was actually discussed by staff, or if it was something that was overlooked because of how late I was in bringing it up?

[SneezyHolmes]

Um ok. I was under the impression that the age range field was supposed to be in addition to the field where you can type out your exact age rather than replacing it. Maybe I'm just weird, but I'm actually more comfortable putting in my exact age than using a range. I can't state exactly why the range thing makes me uncomfortable and maybe it's just because of the way the ages are broken down, but I'd really rather just put my exact age in. Would it be too much to ask to have fields for an exact age and a range available as an option?

Also I know that I was kind of late to the game when I brought up the issues regarding the chatroom and the suggestion about a special name color for underage members. I was just wondering if this was actually discussed by staff, or if it was something that was overlooked because of how late I was in bringing it up?

^This. I'm also uncomfortable with being classified as a range.

[Sitruuna]

I'm happy to see the "not telling" option excists. Thank you staff for not making it compulsory to tell everyone how old you are.

...it's also great that so many members have reserved it for immature kids and old creeps in their minds.