how popular is famous?

[•.*°•☆. Q .☆•°*.•]

one of the other threads here got me thinking about something.

there seems to be a general consensus, at least among people i've talked to, that it's creepy to horn off to and distribute content of an unsuspecting regular person who happens to sneeze in their online video

but, there also seems to be a consensus that this doesn't extend to people who are famous, including those who are internet famous

what im wondering is at what stage of popularity does this distinction kick in? 

i have some ideas, but i'd be interested to see what others here think 

[Coolio]

I think it depends on how the sneezer feels about it themselves. They could find it funny or be creeped out. I think people find it ok to do it with famous people or people with a lot of subscribers because they’re way less likely to see it and think wrong of it. 

[Blah!?]

I've been thinking about this for a while, and honestly I don't really know if there's actually a popularity or fame threshold.

I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying sneezes from random, non-fetishist people online in and of itself. At that point it's not really any different than if you saw someone sneeze in real life. Whether they're a celebrity or some stranger on the subway, as long as you keep it to yourself and don't harass them, I think that's fine.

As for the distribution of said sneezes, that's really the main thing I've been thinking about it. In the case of candid footage of non-celebrities, honestly I just think that's always wrong. Unlike other compilation videos (for example, a compilation of every time a Let's Player's running gag happens), this is being done for explicitly sexual purposes, and it's not like a reaction video either. Reaction videos are transformative, as they're just as much about the reaction as they are the original footage. I think intent also plays a big role here. If it turned out that a sneeze compilation was created and uploaded by someone without the fetish and without any sexual motivation (i.e. maybe a compilation of a given streamer's sneezes purely because the compiler is a superfan and/or their sneeze is itself a running gag within their fan community), that would bother me significantly less than if it had actually been done for fetish reasons.

Many internet creators have endorsed or even worked with people who make compilations of their content. Again I think intent is a big player here. Let's Players and so on create content to entertain their viewers, and compilations of funny moments and so on still serve that same original intent purpose. I'm sure there are some exceptions, but they don't generally sneeze intentionally so that people can be aroused by it.

And nobody asks them if that makes them uncomfortable. To be honest I don't think it's even assumed that they're okay with it. Frankly I don't think people even consider it one way or another. They just see content, and that's all.

From there, I guess the whole point of this thread is "at what point does a person become enough of a public figure for this to be okay?" To be honest, I don't really know. I guess this was just a long-winded way for me to not answer the question. Saying "they're celebrities, they're used to it" doesn't really seem fair, and while I'm growing more and more annoyed by celebrity worship by the day, that doesn't mean I think they shouldn't be allowed to have their privacy.

Ultimately I think the reason why clipping sneezes out of movies doesn't bother me while compiling sneezes from random youtubers does isn't really related to fame at all. I think it's the way that people always flood to these videos, find the original creators, and bombard them with comments about how sexy their sneezes are and how they should sneeze more. It's that entitled attitude of "well, they put it out there, and it's not illegal for me to reupload it, so it's as good as mine now." Even many fetishist creators who do intentionally share their sneezes for people to enjoy are driven away by the same awful treatment. They take their own videos down, and instead of being upset that the creator was harassed, people are only upset that their content is gone, and the reuploaders respond with "I could respect your wishes and take your video down, but I don't have to, so too bad."

[Coolio]

34 minutes ago, Blah!? said:

I've been thinking about this for a while, and honestly I don't really know if there's actually a popularity or fame threshold.

I don't think there's anything wrong with enjoying sneezes from random, non-fetishist people online in and of itself. At that point it's not really any different than if you saw someone sneeze in real life. Whether they're a celebrity or some stranger on the subway, as long as you keep it to yourself and don't harass them, I think that's fine.

As for the distribution of said sneezes, that's really the main thing I've been thinking about it. In the case of candid footage of non-celebrities, honestly I just think that's always wrong. Unlike other compilation videos (for example, a compilation of every time a Let's Player's running gag happens), this is being done for explicitly sexual purposes, and it's not like a reaction video either. Reaction videos are transformative, as they're just as much about the reaction as they are the original footage. I think intent also plays a big role here. If it turned out that a sneeze compilation was created and uploaded by someone without the fetish and without any sexual motivation (i.e. maybe a compilation of a given streamer's sneezes purely because the compiler is a superfan and/or their sneeze is itself a running gag within their fan community), that would bother me significantly less than if it had actually been done for fetish reasons.

Many internet creators have endorsed or even worked with people who make compilations of their content. Again I think intent is a big player here. Let's Players and so on create content to entertain their viewers, and compilations of funny moments and so on still serve that same original intent purpose. I'm sure there are some exceptions, but they don't generally sneeze intentionally so that people can be aroused by it.

And nobody asks them if that makes them uncomfortable. To be honest I don't think it's even assumed that they're okay with it. Frankly I don't think people even consider it one way or another. They just see content, and that's all.

From there, I guess the whole point of this thread is "at what point does a person become enough of a public figure for this to be okay?" To be honest, I don't really know. I guess this was just a long-winded way for me to not answer the question. Saying "they're celebrities, they're used to it" doesn't really seem fair, and while I'm growing more and more annoyed by celebrity worship by the day, that doesn't mean I think they shouldn't be allowed to have their privacy.

Ultimately I think the reason why clipping sneezes out of movies doesn't bother me while compiling sneezes from random youtubers does isn't really related to fame at all. I think it's the way that people always flood to these videos, find the original creators, and bombard them with comments about how sexy their sneezes are and how they should sneeze more. It's that entitled attitude of "well, they put it out there, and it's not illegal for me to reupload it, so it's as good as mine now." Even many fetishist creators who do intentionally share their sneezes for people to enjoy are driven away by the same awful treatment. They take their own videos down, and instead of being upset that the creator was harassed, people are only upset that their content is gone, and the reuploaders respond with "I could respect your wishes and take your video down, but I don't have to, so too bad."

If someone Included in the sneeze comps messaged saying can you take it down I would. Imo at the end of the day it comes down to how the people included in the comps feel. Clancy Burke the news reporter found out she was on this forum and tweeted about it. It seemed like she didn’t think much of it. She still included sneezes in her videos after the tweet. Obviously it’s out of order to go to the channel and start asking them to sneeze in videos and stuff like that. I don’t agree with people who do that at all. As long as you enjoy it without bothering anyone I don’t see a problem. Key thing being that your enjoyment doesn’t bother the sneezers in the comps. That’s just my opinion I’m sure some people will see it differently.

[Usagi]

I think there are some good opinions here so far.

[polychrome]

I'm simultaneously irritated, humbled, and proud to be part of a fetish community that spends so much time thinking about the ethics behind the method of procurement, intention of the creator and the user, public and private treatment of the creator, and sharing of content. I have to admit enjoying some things that, in hindsight, were pretty creeptastically sketchy in one or more of these areas when you look at them "that way." (You know, as though they were created by other humans or something important like that). When it's all a "guilty pleasure" it can be hard to draw the line of what should really make you feel guilty. But knowing better leads to doing better and, as uncomfortable as it is, I think these conversations are important. As for the original question,  it seems like any copying and redistributing would be wrong and directing others to an unsuspecting primary source highly questionable. Creepy comments and messages should always be out. For personal standpoint, is it ok to get a .... high level of enjoyment .... from watching certain scenes in a movie, the evening news, allergy commercials, candid moments, or anything else that someone didn't put something into the world for it to become someone else's fantasy? Remembering or even describing an observation from real life? I'm not sure. Happening upon it seems innocent enough, but seeking it out more dubious. I guess it's a pretty big blessing that we now have the option and access to such a wide variety of intentional sources and the more my conscience gets poked the more I prefer them.