Fictional Characters Who Are Too Young...

[Natto]

So, recently, I started watching Naruto. I'm about twenty episodes in, and I'm really getting into the plot and I'm very fond of a lot of the characters. Of course, since I'm interested in the series at all, my brain is drumming up scenarios wherein they get colds and allergies and whatnot. Problem is...these characters are about twelve or thirteen years old. I'm in my early twenties, so to me, someone that age is a child. I'm a bit weirded out that I'm mentally associating these characters with something that is, to me, sexual.

Does this seem weird to you guys? Since the show is aimed at people around that age or older, the characters aren't really presented as being children--I mean, they are, and it's acknowledged that they are--but they're sort of the center of things, rather than the adults being the center, and I don't know, that sort of changes it for me. If it were a story about adults and then there were some kids involved, I wouldn't be interested in the kids being ill. But in this case the kids are the focus of the story.

I don't know, I just feel like a creep because of this. I want to enjoy my new fandom obsession as I see fit, but...the characters are just so young. I don't know how to feel. Anybody else ever have this problem?

[Pilgrim]

Not weird and not a problem, in my opinion. Context is everything; sneezing (or let's say, kissing) might generally be a sexual thing, but in some situations (let's say with some pre-teens) it might just be cute or kinda fuzzy, generally just attractive in a different way. A fetish, I think, is like a modifier; it makes all that it is applied to better, but only in ways that it was already good to start with. It makes sexy sexier, but cannot make sexyness where there was none to begin with. That's why it generally doesn't make that much of a difference if someone really unattractive sneezes, and why lots of people can find sneezing cool in a gender they aren't sexually attracted to.

[EmeraldThread]

I don't think it's weird. The part where you said that the characters are children, but aren't really presented as children probably makes a difference in the way you see them, and to be honest, I can totally relate to where you're coming from. I've had the same problem, thinking it was strange to be thinking things like this, but then as I thought about it, there were just so many factors that didn't classify the characters as real kids in my mind. That plays a part in it too, I think, that they aren't real and therefore it changes things for some people. But portrayal can be so crucial to the way we see things, and what Pilgrim says about sneezing being attractive in a different way makes a lot of sense in this situation. Like from what you said, it doesn't sound like you're thinking of the characters in a really sexual way. It's just applying the fetish to them because it's something you might find attractive, but not always in the same way.

[kitsune]

I don't really see a problem, mainly because I never really viewed the characters in Naruto as children in the first place. I mean, intellectually I know that that's the age they're supposed to be at, but they don't even look that age. So I suppose my point is rather the same as yours - that the characters aren't really being presented as children despite their supposed ages. Plus, in anime I find a lot of things far more acceptable. Thinking of the Naruto characters sneezing as something that is even somewhat sexual is perfectly fine to me, because it's not as if they're 'real' kids - they're just really lines and colour anyway.

[AmeliePoulain]

Yeah, I agree with everyone else that it's not a problem. I agree that the Naruto characters are not really portrayed as children, which makes a huge difference, and I find a few episodes I've seen kind of exciting, I'm not going to lie It's the same with Harry Potter and HP fanfic. I definitely prefer scenes from the later books, where everyone is basically of age, but I think it's fine to be into stuff from the earlier ones, too. As everyone so far has said, it's all about the perspective.

In my forays into faniction.net, I've seen that people sometimes write stuff in which characters have actually been "age regressed" (or something - I might be misremembering the exact term now) into young children. I find that slightly strange, and I'm not into it. But you know what? It's all fictional, and it's not hurting anyone. So what's the big deal, really?

[March Hare]

I think it makes all the difference if your characters are fictional or real. I think it's wrong to think up scenarios about children and pre-teens that exist in real life, but not to play with fictional characters. As far as publishing anything on these boards is concerned, I don't know the exact rules; but in general, I hold that fiction is free-for-all.

[doggo]

I sympathise. For me generally anime characters just seem kind of ageless. I am in many ways a very childish adult and often feel the reason I can enjoy anime quite a lot is that I'm kind of emotionally stuck at early teens. But yeah I often see them as almost allegorical. I suspect the voice actors being grown-ups has a huge effect too.

[Akahana]

I understand what your saying, I feel the same way with most of the pokemon trainers. I can usually only imagine gyms leaders and likewise (older people between the age of 15-32 XD) Naruto too, they are all really young. Oh and Shugo Chara, where they're all in elementary school (although they're all really cute!!) It's just something you get over when it comes to anime, because they don't usually span much older than that.

[count tiszula]

Judging from recent opinions , if you're a lady it's all right; if you're a gent you're a skeeve, or a squick or something; anyway, not good at games; generally.

As to the forum's attitude to fictions, it is indeed a mystery but in essence any of these characters can sneeze their fictional heads off, be caretaken, even use hankies, as lomg as they're not sexualised. And really this means that nothing can be described in detail. Characters can be naked as long as nothing is described; they can kiss and cuddle ditto, but I think they can only start masturbating on their eighteenth birthday. Makes Gleefics difficult.

[Natto]

General:

Nice to hear that, at least amongst people who understand finding this sort of thing attractive in the first place, I don't seem like some kind of creepazoid. I have no interest in actual children, which is why this weirded me out so much. If I did have that interest, I guess I'd already know that. I just...like to combine whatever fandom I'm obsessing over with my festish. None of my fantasies have included sex, and I've been far less inclined to uh...enjoy myself...to fantasies involving these characters than I have to older characters or people who have caught my fancy in the past. And as has been said, anime children don't necessarily come across to viewers as real kids.

Thanks to everyone who commented!! I appreciate all your thoughts, though I can't reply individually to all of them. ^^;

@ AmeliePoulain: Age regressed? What does that mean? Depending on what you're talking about, I could see that being super cute--I do tend to like stories about the character's child/babyhood, but that's mostly because I'm interested in child development. If you're talking about shota or loli, that's another story altogether.

@ pig: That makes sense! It's sort of the opposite for me. I go into these series and analyze the hell out of them and try to put a "realistic, adult" spin on them, even when that doesn't make sense--I'm into all this shonen anime aimed at kids, but I want it to be adult, so I can relate to it. This leads to things like writing essays about feminism in Yu-Gi-Oh. Because I have no life.

@ Count: Well...I'm a lady, so I guess it's okay? XD; It's good to know what the forum rules are. I've never considered writing about younger characters before because in my last two fandoms, everyone was college-aged or older, and before that, I was a teenager myself and hadn't found the forum. I might want to write some Naruto fic...and I haven't seen Shippuden yet, so if I do it in the next few months, it'll have to be when they're quite young. (Dear Self: Start being interested in Kakashi or Iruka or somebody. Shikamaru is not that fascinating. What is your problem.) If I post here, I definitely want it to be within acceptable guidelines...but the rules you outlined seem totally doable, since I don't even WANT to write about them having sex or anything. Maybe some tsundere-type flirting.

[March Hare]

The Count: trolling like a Sir. Uhm, I mean a Lord.

[webmeistro]

Personally, in the case of fanfic of teenaged characters, it's context that's everything. 99% of the time, the author is not writing for the purpose of having minors have sex, but of having her favorite characters have sex. Unless the fact that they are young is specifically played up, it's probably no big deal.

Honestly, there are approximately 87 billion Harry Potter erotic stories on the net, many gut-churningly explicit (adultfanfiction, lol) and most people don't seem to care that he is underage.

[AmeliePoulain]

@ Natto - When I mentioned "age regressed" (or whatever it's actually called) characters, my idea of it was that the stories were about young child versions of the characters, but still erotic in some way (via sneezing, e.g.), so I assumed there was some intentional erotic purpose to having them be younger (versus the Naruto situation, where they just so happen to be young but are more like adults in a lot of ways). I was saying that that seems deviant, and makes me sort of uncomfortable, honestly, but there's nothing actually wrong with it, so I don't think it's fair to judge it negatively. That said, it could just be portraying younger versions of the characters in a completely non-erotic context, which I think is how you interpreted the age regression thing, in which case, there's nothing even to talk about. I haven't actually read these things, so I don't know for sure XD (Ok, I definitely started to talk in circles in there - sorry!)

@ Count - I think that in general, you're right that there's a huge double standard about what's labeled creepy for girls versus for guys. And that's unfair! We should reject that double standard whenever possible. On this particular issue, though, I'm not 100% sure there is that double standard. If a guy had started this thread asking if it was okay to read sneezefics about first-year Hermione Granger, do you think people would have objected? Or what's-her-name from Pokemon? (Ok, I'm not that well-versed in this genre, haha) I might predict that there wouldn't be that objection, at least within this community. Society-at-large is a whole other story... What do you (or anyone else!) think?

[Natto]

@ AmeliePoulain

Hmm...I do think that a double standard exists. Women aren't seen as potential predators nearly so much as men are. You see this in real life when parents are uncomfortable having adult men teach their young children, or when people react to a story about an adult woman having sex with a teenager by saying that the teenager is lucky rather than being taken advantage of. There's the idea that, no matter what the age, males always want sex and try to get it through whatever means necessary, and the idea that women never want sex. Therefore, a woman who talks about being interested in something that's considered deviant might be seen as innocuous, but a man is seen as a potential threat. Of course, if the woman is talking about sexual desire she could be labelled a huge slut, too--but not a predator. My interest in a fictional character who is young is not seen as being linked to me actually doing anything, meanwhile, if I were male, it probably would be.

I don't think this is fair or accurate. Yes, men are more likely to be predators than women...but I don't think it's fair to judge someone's very personal interests which they are not acting on, and base your opinion solely on gender rather than actions or the content of what they're admitting to.

About the age-regression thing--I guess it could mean a lot of different things. If you're talking about the former, that does make me uncomfortable. If it's the latter, I think it's awesome. Cute children win over creepily, inexplicably sexified children any day.

[tma]

@ Amelie - Ummmmm.... I know that you are a newbie. But... just to let you know- count has brought up this particular topic ad nausem. To sum up.... he feels that Staff are FAR too strict on their interpretation regarding under 18 material.

Having been on Staff once upon a time... I understand that sometimes things can seem to some people like splitting hairs, but... it is Really to balance the knowledge that there *can* be an enjoyment that is at a "different level" with making sure that *all* members feel welcome and safe.

Oh.... btw- I didn't say this to you earlier A.P.- but... welcome to the forum and I said this once- but it bears repeating I the story that you posted.

[AmeliePoulain]

@ tma - Ah, ok. Yes, I am a newbie. Thanks for enlightening me! And I'm glad you the story - that means a lot to me!! I aim to please.

[Pilgrim]

But... just to let you know- count has brought up this particular topic ad nausem. To sum up.... he feels that Staff are FAR too strict on their interpretation regarding under 18 material.

Hey, lots of people bring up boring subjects that they can do nothing to change all the time around here. At least he has done it in a way that had humorous results! Besides, I think his suggestion for "the rules" about 18- material are spot-on

[DaylightStarr]

For me, it's not so much how old the characters are as it is how old the person VOICING the character is. There is a huge difference (in my mind) between a young teen doing the voice of a young teen, and an adult doing the voice of a young teen. Especially in anime, where if a character manages to hit 25 then they are considered an old koot, most of the action IS had by people under the age of 18. So yeah, most of the characters in anime are voiced (at least in the dubs) by people who are at least in their twenties.

If a character is voiced by someone underage, it still squicks me!

[NameTaken]

The Count: trolling like a Sir. Uhm, I mean a Lord.

[Bondi]

I generally gravitate toward seinen anime shows and the few mangas that I read are all seinen so the main characters in such shows would be in their late teens if not adults (there are exceptions, such as Now and Then Here and There) so I guess I wouldn't be able to relate to this anyway. Then again with anime, it's difficult to tell what age a character might be anyway unless they're really young or really old (and depending on the art style it might be difficult to tell if they're a boy or girl as well ) so I guess that might help you feel less creepy about it.

As for the rules, I am also a former admin. As far as my understanding, you can express your enjoyment of the sneezes of fictional characters who happen to be below the age of 18. You can even comment on other members obs even if the member in question is under 18. Problems arise when people start getting sexual about such enjoyment or overly flirty or otherwise try to play the part of the dirty old man.

[doggo]

The Count: trolling like a Sir. Uhm, I mean a Lord.

Cherished pet trollie.

[Natto]

For me, it's not so much how old the characters are as it is how old the person VOICING the character is. There is a huge difference (in my mind) between a young teen doing the voice of a young teen, and an adult doing the voice of a young teen. Especially in anime, where if a character manages to hit 25 then they are considered an old koot, most of the action IS had by people under the age of 18. So yeah, most of the characters in anime are voiced (at least in the dubs) by people who are at least in their twenties.

If a character is voiced by someone underage, it still squicks me!

That's an interesting way to look at it! In my case...I never have any idea who the voice actor is. I think the only time I knew was when the same voice actor who did Tamaki from Ouran Host Club did Light from Death Note, and the contrast was hilarious. For me, it's always all about the character...if we're talking about a fictional character who is played by an actor who you can see, like live action, then who the actor is, and what their age is, would be more relevant to me.

[count tiszula]

The Count: trolling like a Sir. Uhm, I mean a Lord.

Cherished pet trollie.

You know, I have absolutely no idea what this means.

Anyway, all I have done on this thread is attempt to unravel the mysteries of what seems to be the general opinion and the details of forum policy. I expressed no opinion of my own.

What really saddens me is that young people come here racked with guilt because they think they are the only icks in the world, and instead of reassuring them that they are quite normal indeed could scarcely be more innocent, we cover them with new rules and make them more guilty than ever. I mean, many people now believe that it's actually illegal to watch a clip of Justin Bieber or Harry Styles [?] or Nick Jonas sneezing.

So, Mlle Poulain, it looks as if there is a double standard indeed. And from the little evidence available, it looks as if gents really are less good at games, and should be avoided. Certainly, you should steer clear of me as it seems I am generally a bad lot. And no reverse sharking; the girls will sympathise, but men are notoriously ungrateful.

[tma]

Well... just in case any u18s feel that either 1) they are not welcome here or 2) that it is illegal or immoral for them to watch u18 clips - neither is the case.

I'll quote Bondi- whose been in the community for a Long time and was an owner of a board, and then an admin here for several years.

As for the rules, I am also a former admin. As far as my understanding, you can express your enjoyment of the sneezes of fictional characters who happen to be below the age of 18. You can even comment on other members obs even if the member in question is under 18. Problems arise when people start getting sexual about such enjoyment or overly flirty or otherwise try to play the part of the dirty old man.

As has been stated loads of times (but I suppose can bear repeating for new people)- it gets to be a *bit* more problematic say when 30, 40, 50 year olds are wanting to see.

[nolongeractive]

Now this is something I've sort of wondered, too. I'm of course not at all attracted to children, but often times the ideas of childish innocence or having a sort of child/mother or protective/care-taking role situation plays into what I enjoy about the fetish. So sometimes, there are some cute scenes that involve children. Sometimes I feel a little guilty about it, but then I also realize that I'm not acting on these feelings, and that these feelings in no way connect to the real world - they're just things I enjoy about certain fictional characters. And like I said before, it usually has less to do with the age and more to do with the situation, the way the characters act, and the way others act around them.