Gender ratios.

[Mash]

I'd like to think I've been around the internet for awhile. Long enough, at least, to recognize that the saying, "On the internet, men are men, women are men, and children are Federal agents" is at least moderately true.

It seems different here, though. This isn't my only fetish, and I often hang out on a similar board for tickle fetishists. That forum is pretty normal. (Relatively speaking) I'd say that there's probably a 3 to 1 ratio of men to women. (By 'women', I mean people who have their profile listed as a female. Who knows how many there actually are.)

On this site, the scale seems to be more in the opposite direction. I'd say that if it isn't an even 1:1 ratio, that there may actually be a greater number of women than men here. This interests me. It's vastly different from what I've seen from the rest of the internet.

Of course, I haven't been around here long, so I could be completely wrong.

Assuming it's true, however, what do you guys think? It wouldn't be logical to assume that less men have the fetish, in my honest opinion. Rather, I think it's more likely that men would have more trouble accepting it as a part of them, and probably are more likely to repress it altogether.

Or maybe I'm overthinking it. Thoughts?

[JenJen]

Certain fetishes just seem to be geared more towards males, others towards females. For example, I very rarely come across a female who has an inflation fetish, or a foot fetish, or an extreme muscle fetish, or a tickling fetish, or an adult baby fetish - it's almost always guys with fetishes like that. Wish I knew why.

[Mash]

Hmmm. It IS interesting. I was just somewhat surprised when I first showed up.

Well, it's a change. The environment seems a bit friendlier and less vulgar-centric. Seems like a better place for friend-finding.

[r]

I think if you look at the history of this and other related sneeze sites, the ratio used to be weighted much more to men. So the present skewing may be an actual difference reflecting the fetish distribution where there are simply more women with this vs. other fetishes and/or, as stated in the previous post, it could be the a little more friendly and attracts more women participants in the site. I think both are certainly possible.

I have noticed far more females posters here than even two years ago. So participation is widely different than in the old old days. The members/activity relationship is intersting as well.

Thanks for starting this discussion!

r

Edited June 17, 2012 by r

[tma]

I think that more of the men on here are "grab and go" and/or lurkers and more of the women are active posters. I know that this sounds gender biased, but it is something that I have noticed over the years that I have been on here. So membership is probably more evenly distributed than you may think.

If someone wants to take the time and go through the membership list you could find out. I am way too lazy to do this though.

[NoV]

If someone wants to take the time and go through the membership list you could find out. I am way too lazy to do this though.

I second you on the laziness part Would love to know for certain, but having kept an eye on the new members we have had since I joined, I would have to agree with tma and say that it seems male members of the forum are less likely to actively contribute. I get the feeling we have a vast number of male 'lurkers' who are happy to use the forum as a resource and not get involved in the chatter. Not saying there is anything wrong with this - indeed, at one time it was me...

[Jorm]

Actually it's pretty easy to figure out the numbers if you use the gender search filter to look up members

There are indeed more registered women than men. There are 52 pages of members listing themselves as female and 36 pages of members listing themselves as male. And if you want to get more specific each page has 20 members listed on it so there are approximately 1,040 female listed members compared to only 720 male listed members. There are also 6 pages of members with undisclosed gender, meaning approximately 120 people. I say approximately because the last page of each list may well not actually be 20 members long, so there's probably slightly less than that.

I doubt that accurately reflects the number of people out there who have this fetish though. I think that tma is right that there is something of a difference in the way men and women interact with their fetishes and I suspect that the atmosphere on this forum is more geared towards women than men, in a very broad sense. I think there's some level of truth in the idea that men are more visual in terms of sexual interests and prefer to "grab and go" were women are more inclined to want to have a conversation.

*Edited for bad math

Edited June 17, 2012 by Ouroboros

[tma]

Ouro... have I ever told you how absolutely smexy you are? Just brilliant coming up with an easier solution then looking at Every single page.

That sort of surprises me a bit- although what you said about representation is true. It makes it even more amusing that back in the day when I found Bondi's Beenseen board it seemed like it was ALL guys and everything was about female sneezing, and I honestly was thinking that I was one of Very few females and that maybe I was the *Only* person that liked males sneezing. Evidently neither of those is the case.

[Jorm]

Ouro... have I ever told you how absolutely smexy you are? Just brilliant coming up with an easier solution then looking at Every single page.

Well, thank you, but I don't know that he ability to find statistics is especially smexy

[Pilgrim]

Ouro... have I ever told you how absolutely smexy you are? Just brilliant coming up with an easier solution then looking at Every single page.

Well, thank you, but I don't know that he ability to find statistics is especially smexy

The entire readership of XKCD would like a word with you...

[Sniffle Lover]

I agree that women seem more actively engaged with this fetish, because when I do searches on Youtube it's a lot harder to find the male version of fetishy stuff but there are always a lot of sneezy women. And while I'm sure women watch women too I bet a lot of men watch these videos without posting anything themselves.

[brokensneeze]

I agree that women seem more actively engaged with this fetish, because when I do searches on Youtube it's a lot harder to find the male version of fetishy stuff but there are always a lot of sneezy women. And while I'm sure women watch women too I bet a lot of men watch these videos without posting anything themselves.

I don't think this points to more women having the fetish--I think it's that women are more used to being sexy themselves, and men are more used to finding others sexy. Actually, as a male, it's often disappointingly hard to feel sexy, because it seems nobody wants to "have" your body. For instance, in all the male-female friendships I've seen, rarely ever did the woman develop sexual urges toward the man, but the reverse happens at one time or another in many, if not the majority, of cases.

About the idea of looking for erotica vs. discussing, even on other fetish boards where there's verbal discussion, the posters are overwhelmingly male. Except on personals sites like FetLife, where there are still more men overall, but almost every discussion thread has a decent number of replies from women in it.

Edited June 18, 2012 by brokensneeze

[tma]

don't think this points to more women having the fetish--I think it's that women are more used to being sexy themselves, and men are more used to finding others sexy

I'm not so sure on that.

[Sniffle Lover]

I agree that women seem more actively engaged with this fetish, because when I do searches on Youtube it's a lot harder to find the male version of fetishy stuff but there are always a lot of sneezy women. And while I'm sure women watch women too I bet a lot of men watch these videos without posting anything themselves.

I don't think this points to more women having the fetish--I think it's that women are more used to being sexy themselves, and men are more used to finding others sexy. Actually, as a male, it's often disappointingly hard to feel sexy, because it seems nobody wants to "have" your body. For instance, in all the male-female friendships I've seen, rarely ever did the woman develop sexual urges toward the man, but the reverse happens at one time or another in many, if not the majority, of cases.

About the idea of looking for erotica vs. discussing, even on other fetish boards where there's verbal discussion, the posters are overwhelmingly male. Except on personals sites like FetLife, where there are still more men overall, but almost every discussion thread has a decent number of replies from women in it.

I actually think we might agree somewhat, because when I said "women seem more actively engaged" I didn't mean that more women have the fetish. In my opinion it's probably around 50-50 male to female. With that statement I mean women post more stuff including videos and wavs and an equal number of men have the fetish but don't post as much.

[brokensneeze]

don't think this points to more women having the fetish--I think it's that women are more used to being sexy themselves, and men are more used to finding others sexy

I'm not so sure on that.

How so? I think most can agree that a woman, almost any woman, who shows lots of skin, or even just walks up to men will be considered sexy by a large number of men, even some number of particularly good-looking men. Whereas if I, as a man, started stripping, most people (straight women included) would find it weird, gross, or just boring, and I'm not obese or particularly hairy.

Most men are used to being doted on, nursed, respected for their achievements, etc.--but not being seen as "sexy" in the same way that women are, unless they do something more than just be male, such as having high status, being able to play certain conversational "games", express love or commitment, etc. Though I'd be happy to learn otherwise, that us guys are sexy just for who we are.

Edited June 19, 2012 by brokensneeze

[Salamander]

I think that more of the men on here are "grab and go" and/or lurkers and more of the women are active posters. I know that this sounds gender biased, but it is something that I have noticed over the years that I have been on here. So membership is probably more evenly distributed than you may think.

I've noticed this trend, also women seem to write more fiction (the old cliche that men are visual, women like mental/written erotica- don't know how far that goes. I'm pretty visual it's just that "female gaze" erotic photography is harder to find) so they might use the boards more. With the rise of youtube, it's easier for people who want to "grab and go" as tma says. Even a few years ago the forum was the best place to find fetish material, and becoming a member helped. Now it's easy to find material without joining, os forum membership may not be

That said, does anyone remember the "fetish map"? I used to read the blog of the woman who made it, she was pretty academic about her research and she has listed sneezing as a fetish with a high ratio of women to men, though that's not the same as MORE men than women. Sorry, the quality is awful! You could find a better one by googling maybe.

[brokensneeze]

It was interesting to look at that chart--some of the ones that are notably popular with women I wouldn't have expected, like guns, vomiting, lactation, and zoophilia. Also interesting is the fact that all of them with an especially high prevalence among lesbians involve some sort of danger--guns, knives, and cutting. Is this a rebellion against the social standard that women always be "nice"?

[VoOs]

How so? I think most can agree that a woman, almost any woman, who shows lots of skin, or even just walks up to men will be considered sexy by a large number of men, even some number of particularly good-looking men. Whereas if I, as a man, started stripping, most people (straight women included) would find it weird, gross, or just boring, and I'm not obese or particularly hairy. Most men are used to being doted on, nursed, respected for their achievements, etc.--but not being seen as "sexy" in the same way that women are, unless they do something more than just be male, such as having high status, being able to play certain conversational "games", express love or commitment, etc. Though I'd be happy to learn otherwise, that us guys are sexy just for who we are.

I feel I have to address this, because it is something I feel rather strongly about.

We women are STARVED for men being sexy for our viewing pleasure (and listening pleasure, for that matter...). The male body is a beautiful thing and I love looking at it, but it's very rare to find male beauty to marvel at that was actually meant for female eyes, and not "by gay men for gay men". Society still objectifies the female body far more than the male body, and some women may perhaps act like the sight of a stripping man is weird or gross to them, but that's only because they are not used to being offered eye-candy in that way. I'm not saying this goes for everyone, but you know what I mean. Of course women drool at sexy men, of course we want them to try and be sexy for us. You give some, and you get some. That's how it really should be. But, alas, we still live in a society where it's the women's job to be sexy and provide the pr0n, while the men can just "grab and go".

It makes me pretty furious, to be honest.

Okay, I'm done. Carry on. [/end rant]

Edited June 21, 2012 by VoOs

[brokensneeze]

The male body is a beautiful thing and I love looking at it, but it's very rare to find male beauty to marvel at that was actually meant for female eyes, and not "by gay men for gay men".

What would distinguish these two for you, "for female eyes" vs. "by gay men for gay men".

The reason I have to ask, as a straight male I actually don't enjoy porn of straight couples that much. I like watching two women, or even a woman by herself. Also, while it's very sexy to watch a woman enjoying herself, I'm actually turned off by deliberate attempts to "be sexy", like stroking one's body in ways that are just done to get attention.

[Vetinari]

I think it's that women are more used to being sexy themselves, a

The idea that women are generally used to feeling sexy is incredible to me. For many years the idea that any man would find me attractive seemed impossible. All down to bad body image and the negativity many women seem to feel about their bodies almost all the time. Fortunately I am no longer so unhappy with myself. My body hasn't changed, only my mindset. Perhaps you are experiencing the same thing and actually women would find you attractive without necessarily saying so. In my experience it can be difficult sometimes for women to make the first move due to gender stereotyping.

don't think this points to more women having the fetish--I think it's that women are more used to being sexy themselves, and men are more used to finding others sexy

I'm not so sure on that.

How so? I think most can agree that a woman, almost any woman, who shows lots of skin, or even just walks up to men will be considered sexy by a large number of men, even some number of particularly good-looking men. Whereas if I, as a man, started stripping, most people (straight women included) would find it weird, gross, or just boring, and I'm not obese or particularly hairy.

A woman who shows a lot of skin is likely to be seen by some people as slutty. Maybe some men like that but I for one amnot into casual sex, so that message would be a negative one for me. A man in warm weather seen wearing only shorts is a perfectly normal sight. Not necessarily boring, in fact sometimes a very pleasant sight indeed, but are we supposed to come up to every man we see that way and stroke them and say "My you look so sexy with all that bare skin!" It doesn't come naturally to me anyway I fear. Maybe I should try it more often!

And how interesting I find your comments:

I'm actually turned off by deliberate attempts to "be sexy", like stroking one's body in ways that are just done to get attention.

I hate this too, I hate the silly pout women put on when they are pretending to enjoy themselves. I hate all the false screaming and the excessive stroking in non-amateur porn. Indeed I very much dislike in general women who try to make themselves sexually alluring to men in any way that I feel is cheap. It astonishes me that some men seem to find those cheap advertisements so attractive. Happily some men (like you) seem to have more taste!

[JenJen]

How so? I think most can agree that a woman, almost any woman, who shows lots of skin, or even just walks up to men will be considered sexy by a large number of men, even some number of particularly good-looking men. Whereas if I, as a man, started stripping, most people (straight women included) would find it weird, gross, or just boring, and I'm not obese or particularly hairy. Most men are used to being doted on, nursed, respected for their achievements, etc.--but not being seen as "sexy" in the same way that women are, unless they do something more than just be male, such as having high status, being able to play certain conversational "games", express love or commitment, etc. Though I'd be happy to learn otherwise, that us guys are sexy just for who we are.

I feel I have to address this, because it is something I feel rather strongly about.

We women are STARVED for men being sexy for our viewing pleasure (and listening pleasure, for that matter...). The male body is a beautiful thing and I love looking at it, but it's very rare to find male beauty to marvel at that was actually meant for female eyes, and not "by gay men for gay men". Society still objectifies the female body far more than the male body, and some women may perhaps act like the sight of a stripping man is weird or gross to them, but that's only because they are not used to being offered eye-candy in that way. I'm not saying this goes for everyone, but you know what I mean. Of course women drool at sexy men, of course we want them to try and be sexy for us. You give some, and you get some. That's how it really should be. But, alas, we still live in a society where it's the women's job to be sexy and provide the pr0n, while the men can just "grab and go".

It makes me pretty furious, to be honest.

Okay, I'm done. Carry on. [/end rant]

I can't co-sign this hard enough, oh my god. Especially the part about how some heterosexual women, when presented with male sexiness, will actually go "gross!" and act weirded out.

I went to a strip club once that catered exclusively to women. The men were to DIE for. A few of the women in the group I was in, however, kept acting totally squicked out. A dancer would come on stage and start gyrating and removing clothing, and these women would bury their faces in their hands and turn away, or say "oh my god" in the same negative tone they probably reserve for seeing a dead cockroach in the kitchen. I don't even know why they came if they didn't want to oogle naked men. I was up there by the stage like a champ, snapping dollars into g-strings and getting sexy hot mankisses up my neck. Unf that was a good night.

Anyway, yeah. I definitely bothers me that some of these women seem to have internalized the whole 'women must be pure'/'women having sexual desires is shameful' thing that certain corners of society like to tout. They feel like they have to act a certain way out in public to keep up appearances and not seem 'slutty'.

Like, it actually baffles me how many friends I've had over the years who not only were unaware of the existence of fetishes, but didn't have any kinks to speak of. I mean come on, EVERYONE has at least one kink, one special thing that really gets their motor running. I feel so badly for women who have never explored their own sexuality.

I'm not sure what my overall point was, but I think I made it? Sorry guys, I'm a bit tipsy.

[Akahana]

I've noticed this as well. It's interesting that most people here are female (as far as I know), while so many other fetishes are prominently male...hmmmm~

[VoOs]

What would distinguish these two for you, "for female eyes" vs. "by gay men for gay men".

Male beauty meant for female eyes is just what it says on the label: a deliberate sexualization of men meant for a female audience. It is a rare thing to come by, whereas male beauty aimed at a male audience is much more common. Straight material or gay - in the end, it's the men who are the main consumers.

Also, I think that a straight or bisexual woman's idea of a "sexy man" might be slightly different from a gay man's idea of the same thing (pardon my generalization).

[Salamander]

brokensneeze, on 22 June 2012 - 10:44 PM, said: What would distinguish these two for you, "for female eyes" vs. "by gay men for gay men". Male beauty meant for female eyes is just what it says on the label: a deliberate sexualization of men meant for a female audience. It is a rare thing to come by, whereas male beauty aimed at a male audience is much more common. Straight material or gay - in the end, it's the men who are the main consumers.

VoOS is doing a great job of fielding this, but the concept is sometimes called the 'male gaze' and 'female gaze.' Do some googling.

I found this link to start you off-

http://finallyfemini...le-gaze”/

Gay men and straight women want very different things. Attraction is cultural and gender-based, and subjective, so it's affected by the person looking, not only by the gender of the person they are looking AT.

I think the really sad thing is that you're right, women ARE more used to being looked at than looking. But it doesn't have to be that way! Many women would like to see more media that is sexually appealing to them, and it also is a shame for men who don't get a chance to feel really desired. Being physically desired can be nice sometimes (I said sometimes!!) and men are starved of images of naked men as attractive.

One of the reasons I LOVE the fetish boards (and fandom in general) is that it is the greatest source of female gaze media. Women making images and narratives about men for themselves, to push our buttons.

There used to be a really great magazine 'Filament' which featured male nudes my female photographers. The difference in how women make images for themselves, and how men make images they think women want is fascinating. I think the archives are kicking around on the net somewhere.

Edited June 23, 2012 by Salamander

[VoOs]

Gay men and straight women want very different things. Attraction is cultural and gender-based, and subjective, so it's affected by the person looking, not only by the gender of the person they are looking AT.

I think the really sad thing is that you're right, women ARE more used to being looked at than looking. But it doesn't have to be that way! Many women would like to see more media that is sexually appealing to them, and it also is a shame for men who don't get a chance to feel really desired. Being physically desired can be nice sometimes (I said sometimes!!) and men are starved of images of naked men as attractive.

One of the reasons I LOVE the fetish boards (and fandom in general) is that it is the greatest source of female gaze media. Women making images and narratives about men for themselves, to push our buttons.

^ Dis right here.