Can We Discuss This Matter Openly?

[Likesn]

This has occupied my mind for some time:

Throughout the years this forum exists some of the members have been banned from the forum. Sometimes, it's even members that have been on this forum for a considerable amount of time and have contributed to this forum on a regular base (not pointing fingers at anyone specific now, in case you were wondering). I, for one, am curious when this happens, and I always wonder- what could this person have possibly done to be banned. I am aware that there are reasons not to declare publicly why a specific member has been banned. I can think of two main reasons:

1) This community is very warm and supportive, and we don't want to start a "naming and shaming" policy.

2) Sometimes, a member is banned due to an action that has hurt another member personally, and we don't want everybody on this forum to know exactly what happened, so that the hurt member wouldn't be hurt any further due to the exposure of the incident.

That being said, banning someone from the forum is the most extreme measure which can be taken against a member, and I think that in some of the cases the other members of the forum should be aware of the reason for the banning, so that people will know not to make the same mistakes again. I'm aware that this forum has explicit rules, and that members of the forum should obey these rules, or else they risk being banned. I'm also aware of the fact that many times members are warned (often more than once) before being banned. Still, I can't help but wander if maybe there should be a way for members of the forum to discuss this matter openly between themselves (maybe in a specific section of the forum).

I'd like to know what you guys think about that.

[Hibiscus]

I, for one, am curious when this happens, and I always wonder- what could this person have possibly done to be banned

If it doesn't really apply to you, then in my opinion, you don't need to know.And besides, from what the person posted, you can assume what they got banned for.

there should be a way for members of the forum to discuss this matter openly between themselves (maybe in a specific section of the forum).

We chat about this matter in the chat room and/or personal messenger already. We don't need a specific section of the forum solely dedicated to it. Only the staff knows exactly why they banned the person- All others would just be gossiping.

other members of the forum should be aware of the reason for the banning, so that people will know not to make the same mistakes again.

That's what the rules are for. People can get warned, then they won't make the same mistakes again.

Funny, this reminded me off sticking a beheaded enemy's head on a wooden post for all to see.

[Anonymouse]

That being said, banning someone from the forum is the most extreme measure which can be taken against a member, and I think that in some of the cases the other members of the forum should be aware of the reason for the banning, so that people will know not to make the same mistakes again.

I'm sure if it's a serious enough offense to get them banned, people should have the common sense to know not to do it.

[Blah!?]

I agree on basically all counts. I was previously on the staff here, so I'm reasonably confident this isn't going to change, but I just thought of a potential compromise.

This doesn't cover all ban cases, but maybe there could be a public (probably viewable but locked) list of members who have banned specifically for creating duplicate accounts, or attempting to re-register after being banned previously. Not only would this help the average member figure out if a suspicious new arrival is a returning offender, but it would also clear up the image that people are being banned left and right seemingly for no reason. As I understand it, duplicate accounts and re-registering are the two main reasons why people get banned here already, so I think something like this would really help.

[Jorm]

Maybe it would help if the Rules and Guidelines and/or FAQ threads more more explicit about what consequences of breaking various rules was. I.E. What actions will get you a warning, what will get your account suspended, what will get you permanently banned. I know it's likely that the rules aren't always hard and fast, and different circumstances warrant different measures even when the same rule is in question, so explicit consequences for specific actions wouldn't be 100% accurate, but a basic guide of what actions are likely result in what disciplinary measures might remove some of the uncertainty and confusion. Maybe add an entire section on banning to the FAQ? I can see how, especially for newer members, some bans could seem strange, or extreme when absolutely no information is given about either why that member was banned or even what sorts of things are considered ban worthy offenses.

On the other hand, I don't think that discussions about specific people and why they've been banned would be productive. A list like Blah suggests, maybe, but an open discussion just seems like asking for things to get ugly.

[TheCakeIsAlive]

Maybe it would help if the Rules and Guidelines and/or FAQ threads more more explicit about what consequences of breaking various rules was.

There is a section like this. It's more a guideline than "hard and fast" as you call it, but a rough outline of what will happen when one accumulates warnings is given here: http://www.sneezefetishforum.org/#XII

[Jorm]

Maybe it would help if the Rules and Guidelines and/or FAQ threads more more explicit about what consequences of breaking various rules was.

There is a section like this. It's more a guideline than "hard and fast" as you call it, but a rough outline of what will happen when one accumulates warnings is given here: http://www.sneezefetishforum.org/#XII

Yeah, I looked at that before I posted actually, because I wanted to make sure I wasn't suggesting something that already existed. That's not quite what I meant. That's a good guide as far as what affects the number of warnings a member has will have, but it doesn't help explain why someone might get warned in the first place. As far as I could see, none of the rules specify what the consequences for breaking them are. Now, maybe we're supposed to take it as read, that any rule breaking will result in a warning, and in terms of encouraging people to follow them, the consequence shouldn't matter, we should follow them because they're the rules and we respect them, not by weighing whether the punishment is worth it or not. But in terms of Likesn's question of understanding why a member might be banned, the warning level system doesn't really help.

[Kiwifruit]

In general from what I've heard the staff tend to be fairly lenient anyway and if you're making a genuine mistake they tend to let you off with an 'unofficial warning'. If it's serious enough that they actually give a warning I think a lot of the time it's either deliberate flouting of the rules or something where they really should have known better with no real excuse for breaking it. This may be entirely inaccurate, but I think in cases where new people post under-18 vids without knowing, the vids simply get removed and they are informed of the rules. Then, if they post ANOTHER under-18 vid, warnings and/or bans would be given. Whereas a regular member who's been here for years and who obviously knows that under-18 vids aren't permitted would probably get a warning right away for posting one. I know I've been let off in the past without a warning for having multiple personal conversations in threads (one of which was several pages long...oops? ) when I was basically stomping all over the no-threadjacking-or-spamming rules...xP Teenage me thought I was super clever by taking it to the Testing Board since 'threadjacking is allowed there'. I did get told off. I probably should have got a warning for that, but I felt super bad anyway and tried to avoid such nonsense again so mission accomplished by the mods I guess? xD

I can kind of see people deliberately pushing the rules and then saying "oh but it says I'll be let off with an unofficial warning here!!" if we had a specific set of guidelines. Though there would probably be provisos for deliberate rule breaking, 'may change at mod's discretion' etc etc.

I really don't think it's anyone's business why someone got banned. Gossip in the chatroom is one thing, but publically sharing it is going too far IMHO. If it's a case where something is becoming a problem and mods want to remind us of a certain rule I imagine they will share as much as they think they need to by posting an announcement along the lines of 'we would like to remind all members that multiple accounts will not be tolerated etc'. I like how it currently is, where disciplinary issues are generally dealt with in private and if necessary a reminder may be posted in a thread where a transgression occurred, as it happens now.

Just my two cents

[criticalsec]

As long as I've been here, since 2003, this forum has been moderated in what I see as a super cereal, and super sensitive way. Not saying whether I think this is good or bad.

[Enkidom]

Maybe it would help if the Rules and Guidelines and/or FAQ threads more more explicit about what consequences of breaking various rules was.

There is a section like this. It's more a guideline than "hard and fast" as you call it, but a rough outline of what will happen when one accumulates warnings is given here: http://www.sneezefetishforum.org/#XII

Yeah, I looked at that before I posted actually, because I wanted to make sure I wasn't suggesting something that already existed. That's not quite what I meant. That's a good guide as far as what affects the number of warnings a member has will have, but it doesn't help explain why someone might get warned in the first place. As far as I could see, none of the rules specify what the consequences for breaking them are. Now, maybe we're supposed to take it as read, that any rule breaking will result in a warning, and in terms of encouraging people to follow them, the consequence shouldn't matter, we should follow them because they're the rules and we respect them, not by weighing whether the punishment is worth it or not. But in terms of Likesn's question of understanding why a member might be banned, the warning level system doesn't really help.

The thing is that the warning system is - very importantly in my opinion - private. The only people who know whether someone has received a warning are the forum staff and the members themselves and the reason for the warning is always clearly explained to the person involved. The only time a warning becomes public is if a member chooses to make it so themselves. In this way a generally positive member who has made a mistake is still able to interact freely without other members judging them because of possession of a warning. I also feel the constitution is quite clear on the consequences for breaking the rules - any breach of one of the forum rules can result in a warning, at staff discretion. Any breach of the guidelines is likely to involve reminders in the first instance, but may result in a formal warning if forum staff feel that it is serious and/or prelonged.

In all cases, members warned are offered a private "right of reply".

As regards banned members, the forum staff only take this action as a last resort, either due to receipt of multiple warnings (see warning level list linked to by TheCakeisALie earlier in this thread) or to remove a multiple account (expressly forbidden under rule 10 of the Constitution). Bans as a result of multiple warnings will generally follow suspensions and periods of moderator review of posts but, as the warning system is private, it follows that the reasons for banning are also private. The staff do take the point though that, at times, the "behind the scenes" nature of the disciplinary system can cause confusion among members, especially given that staff are all volunteers and that sometimes it can take time to identify a duplicate account, for example, by which point several apparently perfectly acceptable posts that do not break forum rules have emanated from that duplicate account. Consequently we are considering adding a "Duplicate Ban" group which will hopefully clarify where an account has been banned as a multiple account created by an existing member.