(possible trigger warning) probly another dumb question...

[Klingon]

I know a young woman who is 6 feet 1 and 1/2 inches tall, I'll call her A she is of native American descent (specificly Cherokee of wolf clan, Eastern band), with reddish brown skin, dark brown eyes and black hair that she wears in two braids to the bottom of her D cups. lately she's been complaining about her weight (and some other things) I'm wondering out of curiousity what a woman her height should weigh. she has rescently had a lot of medical issues, I won't get into but has lost about 18 pounds ( give or take) out of a weight of 234 pounds but still refers to herself in such ways as "fat b****h" and "she bulk"  and "fatso" she doesn't seem to me to be fat at all. it makes me mad when she says such stuff and I try to reassure her. but I don't know what the correct weigh for her size should be. (I don't even know my own (5 feet 9 inches) for that matter)she's a good kid and has endured a lot the last couple years. I'm trying to be a good friend to her and keep her positive in her thinking but it's hard. does anyone know what the proper weight for a woman of her height is?    

[Reader]

This isn’t a dumb question and it’s good that you’re trying to help your friend. I typed 216 and 6’1 into a body mass index calculator and pasted the results below.

Your Body Mass Index (BMI) is 28.5. This means your weight is within the Overweight range.

Your current BMI is greater than the recommended range of 18.5 to 24.9. 
To be within the right range for your height, you should weigh between 140 lbs / 63.4 kg and 189 lbs / 85.6 kg

The simple fact is that she isn’t happy with her weight. You could tell her that you don’t like hearing her insult herself and that you don’t think she needs to change, but you’ll exercise with her if she wants. 

 

[bloom]

Dude, why are you describing somebody's breasts? Do you think she would be comfortable with the fact that you've shared the specifications of her body down to her tit size with a bunch of strangers online?

Also, trigger warnings are useless unless you indicate in the thread title what you're trigger warning for.

[Garnet]

You are approaching it with the wrong mindset. Just from your opening salvo, none of this has anything to do with her weight or health. Why the hell do we care how she wears her hair, or how big her breasts are? It sounds like you have a different feeling about this woman beyond a friend invested in her well-being.

Anyway, weight loss or the lack thereof is a pretty personal journey, so while outside encouragement/reassurance can be a thing, you really can't change what she feels at her core. That's just something she has to get through on her own (or, ideally, with the help of a qualified therapist). 

[Klingon]

um I personally don't care about her bust size, I mentioned it only in trying to describe her. just as I don't care which clan she's from or how much Cherokee blood is in her or not. (no offence to any Cherokee here) I'm just wanting to get through to her. when she refers to herself as " fat b****h" or "fatso" it really makes me mad inside. I see her strengths, qualities and her passion for her 5 year old husky Greta. I see the pride she has in the Cherokee peoples accomplishments. and I know how much she enjoyed her job and how good she was at it. and I honestly don't care that she is lesbian. I want her to be proud of her body and weight!, to have a good self image and return to health. I found it awesome that she was a bow hunter, who believes very strongly in caring for nature and hunting only for food. I know she said a prayer of thanks to each animal she took, and was very serious in trying to make each kill as quick and painless as she could, as a matter of fact she went to great lengths indeed to insure that! until medical issues started rescently she was a womens jingle/ womens health dancer and a women's fancy shawl dancer. she taught me a couple of words in Tsalagi and things about the Cherokee, that I never knew before. I care about A as a friend and I want to find ways to encourage her and to strengthen the good things inside her. to help her see what we who know her see as much as possible. I have never cared about her bust or her height or that she is Cherokee or not I care about the woman inside. I am angry at the way she talks about her self and thinks of herself. I am angry about the medical issues she's facing and the pain she has been going through. I hate what others have done to her and long to make them pay for it, even though I know it's not my place. that's why I wrote the original post above. trying to find ways to cheer her up and to encourage her. she's going through a very dark, painful and frightening time right now. I want to find ways to remind her that she doesn't stand alone!, to encourage her, to empower her to fight the battles she is going through. to get her to see herself as beautiful and strong not ugly or fat or any such garbage! I can't even begin to imagine what she is going through at all. but A does not stand alone I am and will be her friend. crippled or not, lesbian or not busty or not I do not care!, I will do my best to be her friend! and while I know those who hurt her before and mistreated will probly never see this, to them (especially her low life, good for nothing father) I would say stay away from her and never mess with her again. it wont be her they have to deal with. though to be fair if I knew another member of this group was being abused and could do something about it I would. even if someone I don't like on a personal level. no one should ever be abused or harmed by others. and I would never tolerate it around me or be part of it.

[Reader]

5 hours ago, Kurn'la said:

trying to find ways to cheer her up and to encourage her.

Your last reply (with some edits of course) could be a nice letter to her. I know it’s hard to know what exactly to say to her to cheer her up or encourage her, but if she knows that you want to do that for her and that you’re racking your brain to think of something to help then I’m sure she’ll appreciate the thought and intent. And maybe she will tell you what could help. 

[Klingon]

she has a pretty lousy attitude right now actually. and nothing any of us say seems to help her, she's been unable to do much of anything for the last month but has been going through therapies to try to give her back most of her abilities. the doctors are confident that in time, she'll regain most if not all of her physical abilities to do things, she how ever has a very different attitude. she said the following rescently in conversation, "all I feel is pain and despair and I know that nothing will ever change what is" to which was responded "yes it will that is the entire purpose of this period" she responded "no therapy or surgery or treatment will ever change it" which was responded with " you don't know any of the answers" she responded "no I don't but neither do the doctors they said as much, they don't know what they're doing" to which was responded "give yourself and the therapy's a chance" to which was responded " I am but we all know the truth of it difference is I've said it out loud and most others won't admit it to themselves" to which was responded "you don't know that" she responded with "I'm not stupid enough to think it'll do me any good brother" this is what I have been talking about here, trying to encourage her and to get her to be positive in her attitudes, I'm not certain how to help her or to encourage her or how to help her to stay positive, to cheer her up. she's in a very rough place right now. she needs to be positive and strong right now more then ever and we have told her. she suffered serious nervous system problems that have done very serious damage. she is currently receiving therapies to try to give her back many of her previous abilities. the doctors are confident she'll be more or less her old self at some point. she however is as you can see not so confident. that attitude will slow if not defeat the therapies entirely. one's attitudes affect ones life, experiences and events a lot more then we want to realize. if we believe something bad will happen it generally will but if we believe positive things they will happen. we know she's in a lot of pain physically and mentally I'm just having trouble finding the right things to say to her to help her stay positive and give her strength. actually I said something to her and am not sure it wasn't rascist thinking back on it... I said the following to her trying to encourage her and give her strength. "I thought your a Cherokee and Cherokee where strong and powerful people, they don't quit fighting for what they believe in", " they give it everything they have even when it looks hopeless" "so if your Cherokee then why are you talking and acting like your gonna quit!", " why aren't you fighting this to win, this battles not over!" "doesn't being Cherokee mean anything to you or are you just a quitter?" was that rascist of me? was I wrong in using that to try to help her fight? I only meant that the Cherokee people from she had told me and from what I've learned, are a strong people who fight and never give up! and are powerful and strong, a warrior people with much to be proud of. and wanted to motivate her, to remind her of her culture in a way that would give her pride but also a reason to fight this. was I wrong in saying it? was it honestly rascist and unfair or mean to her and the Cherokee people? if so I truly never meant it that way honestly! I really do respect the Cherokee people! I honestly think they have much to be proud of in their culture and traditions! part of me wishes I was one of them for that reason. even though I know I will never be one. I never said that to her with bad intention or to insult her people. I wanted to give her purpose and a reason to keep fighting and doing the therapies. but if what I said was in any way rascist or if I offended anyone here who is of Cherokee ancestry I truly am sorry! I never meant anything bad in what I said to her. for what it's worth I think the Cherokee are pretty strong and have much to be proud of.      

[Reader]

@Kurn'la It wasn’t racist, but I think you could have changed the sentence structure to “You are Cherokee. Your people are blah blah. So don’t give up.” 

When you say things like, “I thought you were...”, then it sounds like a personal attack. So she probably bristled or had her back up in defense when you said that. It’s not racist and it’s a compliment but you have to be gentle with your words because she is going through an awful time. How did she take it when you told her? Then again, I’m pretty sensitive so who knows if that even affected her. 

I can tell how strongly you feel about this situation and I know you realllly want things to happen, but just know that it’ll take time. A month is not a long time to wrap your head around a diagnosis. It can take years to adjust emotionally and physically. You have to take care of yourself emotionally too so you don’t blow up at her. But I think you’re doing well in the conversations with her whether or not she’s ready to hear them. She has a memory though and she’ll remember who was there for her and who listened to her cry and who talked to her for hours about the smallest thing because she couldn’t go to sleep. Imagine the frustration from dancing elegantly to not being able to hold a toothbrush. It’s mind-boggling. I don’t need to know what she can’t do but that’s just an example. I thought of that example and I’m like angry and frustrated in my heart just from thinking of that while I’m typing to you now with all of my fingers and with no mobility issue. You say that her attitude will hurt, diminish, or destroy her recovery. There’s a possibility but for your own sake, the fact that she continually goes is something. Take every victory you can get. The simple answer of trying to get her out of her funk is to let it happen naturally. To do everything you’re already doing CONTINUALLY, to let her know that you can’t understand what she’s going through but that you’ll listen, support, and do your absolute best to be there for her. Don’t stop what you’re doing. It’s great! Just be patient if she doesn’t receive it how you want. That takes time. When I went through my thing, I didn’t appreciate the ppl that told me “everything happens for a reason” or the people that stayed quiet in the background. I appreciated and cherished the friend that took action, that went to appointments and classes with me, that brought me food at treatment, that accommodated all the crap I had to bring with me when I went on trips, that listened on the phone and said sorry when I was crying on the phone to her or complaining about pain and etc, the person that stayed in the waiting room during my surgeries, and that never treated me different. I could tell that she didn’t know what to say and that she wished I didn’t have to go through what I did. That felt nice and I didn’t need her to say anything. So I just want you to know that you are helping and that you are encouraging her. Think about how she is now and then think about how she is now without you being there encouraging her. Basically, you might not think you are helping but if you imagine yourself not there then you can tell how much you are helping. I can tell you really cherish her as a friend and she’ll be lucky to have you as a friend if you stay with her through the journey. Don’t fizzle out when you get impatient or tired of her attitude. Go with her to therapy or bring her something right after a therapy session. Not ice cream I guess but think of something. Listen to her when she complains, but don’t talk over her. You have to be patient because she is the one going through this terrible thing.

If you really want to get through to her, you need to tell her to find someone with the same problem. Ppl going through medical stuff like that have a hard time accepting advice from healthy ppl. But having a friend that understands and has gone through or is still going through the same thing helps on a different level because that person understands the same pain, struggle, and frustrated feelings involved. Good luck and good job! 

[Kicker]

I'm not going to go into how strange I think it is that you mention this person's cup size or sexuality or sheer amount of detail you have provided on this individual's life because that's already been covered. Instead, let me respond to this:

8 hours ago, Kurn'la said:

I thought your a Cherokee and Cherokee where strong and powerful people, they don't quit fighting for what they believe in", " they give it everything they have even when it looks hopeless" "so if your Cherokee then why are you talking and acting like your gonna quit!", " why aren't you fighting this to win, this battles not over!" "doesn't being Cherokee mean anything to you or are you just a quitter?" was that rascist of me?

Implying that someone is not reaching your expectations of their race is pretty goddamn suspect. And implying that that same someone is a "quitter"?-- yeah, that might not be the right approach to someone who feels shitty. Or anyone. Like, in general, if you tell someone they're behaving like a "quitter", their mood isn't usually going to float a few inches. Asking if something is you said racist is an indicator of racism like, eight out of ten times. 

She's not your project. And she's not your broken ballerina figure. My advice? Stop treating her like something that needs to be fixed by you. 

[Klingon]

yeah that I have come to have regret having said that too her. it was callous and harsh and unfair of me to use that against her. I wanted to encourage her and give her strength and a reason to work hard at the therapies and not give up. I only hurt her instead and didn't realize it at the time. I won't make that mistake again and believe me I will make things right with her. I will listen more to her and what she's saying and try to be less critical. show her that I stand with her not against her. I will talk to her too about possibly chatting with people from here. though I won't mention the specifics of what this forum is about. if she's willing I will give my facebook address. ( I can only give my facebook on here because of the rules even, if I had her permission to give it here) :roll eyes:

 

[bloom]

14 hours ago, Kicker said:

Asking if something is you said racist is an indicator of racism like, eight out of ten times. 

You? I like you.

Kurn'la, I would perhaps believe that your comments about your friend's Cherokee lineage could have been a one-off racist accident, but you have displayed on this forum, time and time again, that the way you view women of color is often inappropriate or just straight-up racist. I don't know what race you are, but you have fetishized and exotified women of non-white races consistently here for years (I'm thinking specifically of your treatment of Asian women, and also the time you were roleplaying an Inuit [I think?] woman in an astonishingly racist way). 

So, yes. Since you asked, I will tell you that you projecting your beliefs about how other races (races that you do not appear to belong to) should behave, especially onto people of that race, is racist. Really very racist, in fact. I'm glad you asked, because that's the first step to bettering yourself, and it would do you and the women of color around you a lot of good if you were able to take a step back and readjust the expectations you have of them based on their race.