Sneezing/Sick Villains

[Travel]

Just wondering what reaction do you guys and gals have to seeing a villain get sick in a movie or TV show. I notice it's a bit common in old Disney flicks like Hook having a cold in Peter Pan or Madame Mim falling ill in The Sword in the Stone. I suppose a more recent example could be Griveous from Revenge of the Sith. Do you become more empathetic to them, even if only a little? Also, I think it would be cool to list movies and shows that have done this. 

[gryffin]

In my case I don’t know if it’s a matter of empathy. I certainly like that sort of scenario, especially if it has undertones of sneezing / sickness as a consequence of something the villain has done, a punishment of sorts.

I remember an episode of the Princess Sissi anime where the baddie ended up being sick and sneezing a ton because he’d got wet as a consequence of a trick he’d played on Sissi and Franz... or something like that, it must have been close to 20 years ago so I don’t really remember the details! 

[Yuurei]

I personally really love that trope. It really depends on the character whether or not I'll empathize with them more, but what it does do is make them more "real" to me. It shows they're also human, and if they aren't human, it shows they have weakness too. No matter how powerful they are, they are still no match for the common cold!

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Yuurei said:

I personally really love that trope. It really depends on the character whether or not I'll empathize with them more, but what it does do is make them more "real" to me. It shows they're also human, and if they aren't human, it shows they have weakness too. No matter how powerful they are, they are still no match for the common cold!

SECONDING THIS

 I enjoy it, maybe sometimes I will not empathize with them, but I'd still be pretty happy for the same reason that Yuurei posted (I mean, I couldn't have said it better ).

[murphy dee]

A villain can be the most repulsive piece of living garbage, but get him sick or make him injured and suddenly I'm all hearteyes over him. Works every time.

[•.*°•☆. Q .☆•°*.•]

tbh i've always been a huge fan of villains, especially many disney villains, bc they're usually so deeply queercoded. this is of course like, a bad thing, bc of the whole making ppl subconsciously associate queerness with wickedness but also there's the small side effect that even from a young age i identified with and felt huge amounts of compassion for villains. (it was a lot to unpack when i finally grew up! lol.) 

that being said! villains? HOT. Love villains. Villains sick? EN FUEGO. 🔥🔥🔥👏

Edited September 21, 2018 by •.*°•☆. Q .☆•°*.•
typo fix

[SneezyHolmes]

Sick villains are the absolute best! They could be absolute trash but something about seeing them sick completely negates that for me. 

[Travel]

16 hours ago, •.*°•☆. Q .☆•°*.• said:

tbh i've always been a huge fan of villains, especially many disney villains, bc they're usually so deeply queercoded. this is of course like, a bad thing, bc of the whole making ppl subconsciously associate queerness with wickedness but also there's the small side effect that even from a young age i identified with and felt huge amounts of compassion for villains. (it was a lot to unpack when i finally grew up! lol.) 

that being said! villains? HOT. Love villains. Villains sick? EN FUEGO. 🔥🔥🔥👏

Q, that's very interesting! Could you elaborate on how they've been "queercoded"? 

[•.*°•☆. Q .☆•°*.•]

3 hours ago, Travel said:

Q, that's very interesting! Could you elaborate on how they've been "queercoded"? 

I definitely could, but i won't be as eloquent as some others have been. Pls allow me to direct you to some illuminating posts on the subject instead:

http://caterjunes.tumblr.com/post/96504660155/could-you-talk-more-about-the-male-disney-villains

http://smallswingshoes.tumblr.com/post/150935480279/gildedbadger-a-series-of-awkward-moments

http://www.marginsmagazine.com/2015/12/18/fabulously-fiendish-disney-villains-and-queer-coding/

and of course also there's plenty of literature to be searched on the topic as well if the subject is of continued interest to you! i'd reccomend searching "queer coding villains" and "hays code" as a place to start

[Luisa39]

For me it's not appealing if the villain is truly an evil person.  If, on the other hand, it's the sort of character that everyone in the story THIINKS is a villain but really is not (Darcy in Pride and Prejudice would be an example), then few things touch my heart more.  Throw in a few sneezes and "bless you"'s and I positively MELT!

Edited September 23, 2018 by Luisa39

[Travel]

10 hours ago, •.*°•☆. Q .☆•°*.• said:

I definitely could, but i won't be as eloquent as some others have been. Pls allow me to direct you to some illuminating posts on the subject instead:

http://caterjunes.tumblr.com/post/96504660155/could-you-talk-more-about-the-male-disney-villains

http://smallswingshoes.tumblr.com/post/150935480279/gildedbadger-a-series-of-awkward-moments

http://www.marginsmagazine.com/2015/12/18/fabulously-fiendish-disney-villains-and-queer-coding/

and of course also there's plenty of literature to be searched on the topic as well if the subject is of continued interest to you! i'd reccomend searching "queer coding villains" and "hays code" as a place to start

Very interesting stuff. Thanks for sharing!

6 hours ago, Luisa39 said:

For me it's not appealing if the villain is truly an evil person.  If, on the other hand, it's the sort of character that everyone in the story THIINKS is a villain but really is not (Darcy in Pride and Prejudice would be an example), then few things touch my heart more.  Throw in a few sneezes and "bless you"'s and I positively MELT!

Oh yeah, I can definitely see that. As a guy, I find it adorable when in real life or in fiction, you see a tough even mean girl show that side of herself., especially when it's obvious that they're not really evil. 

[RedVelvetHeart]

The most confusing example of this I've come across is in Schindler's List. Amon Göth, the commandant of the concentration camp, is portrayed by Ralph Fiennes. When he first appears he has a cold and keeps wiping his nose with a handkerchief. His first words are "Ja, why is the top down? I'm fucking freezing." Then he goes to a line of female prisoners to find a housekeeper, and acts chivalrous with the woman he picks out, taking a step back, saying, "I don't want to give you my cold." But he proceeds to abuse her horribly while she serves as his housekeeper. He is a total sadist and he kills prisoners randomly. This is an actual historical character. He was hanged for war crimes.

So its got all the fetishy appeal it could possibly have for me...gorgeous actor, a cold, vulnerable villain, chivalry. But he's ACTUAL NAZI WAR CRIMINAL who took part in the holocaust, so....NOPE. Can't ship that. Makes it uncomfortable to watch.

 

[Travel]

I need to see Schindler's List again, but that's a great example of an expertly written and performed villain; he has elements we can relate to, he was human afterall, but he was also a murdering monster. Schindler's List itself is a story about how humans can be responsible for atrocious actions but also of very noble ones. 

[Selene]

Did someone say sick villain?! 😍 *is summoned* This is one of my all time favourite tropes. Something as tiny as some germs or viruses taking down the almighty evil ruler of darkness and despair? Totally my jam!

Takes the "tough person weakened by a cold"-trope to the next level

 

Edited September 25, 2018 by Selene

[Travel]

23 minutes ago, Selene said:

Did someone say sick villain?! 😍 *is summoned* This is one of my all time favourite tropes. Something as tiny as some germs or viruses taking down the almighty evil ruler of darkness and despair? Totally my jam!

Takes the "tough person weakened by a cold"-trope to the next level

 

What do you make of the aliens in War of the Worlds? : p 

[Selene]

Since I'm not that much into tentacles, I guess I need to specify my above statement: humanoid villains

Edited September 25, 2018 by Selene

[Travel]

6 minutes ago, Selene said:

Since I'm not that much into tentacles, I guess I need to specify my above statement: humanoid villains

😄

In any way, those aliens died pretty quick. We didn't get a chance to truly see them suffer. 

[Luisa39]

On ‎9‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 8:57 PM, superimmunegirl said:

The most confusing example of this I've come across is in Schindler's List. Amon Göth, the commandant of the concentration camp, is portrayed by Ralph Fiennes. When he first appears he has a cold and keeps wiping his nose with a handkerchief. His first words are "Ja, why is the top down? I'm fucking freezing." Then he goes to a line of female prisoners to find a housekeeper, and acts chivalrous with the woman he picks out, taking a step back, saying, "I don't want to give you my cold." But he proceeds to abuse her horribly while she serves as his housekeeper. He is a total sadist and he kills prisoners randomly. This is an actual historical character. He was hanged for war crimes.

So its got all the fetishy appeal it could possibly have for me...gorgeous actor, a cold, vulnerable villain, chivalry. But he's ACTUAL NAZI WAR CRIMINAL who took part in the holocaust, so....NOPE. Can't ship that. Makes it uncomfortable to watch.

 

This.  I love Ralph Fiennes, and if his character in Schindler's List were a repentant Nazi, then I could probably get into the cold motif.  But the fact that the character's so ruthless and is based on a real person makes it a no-go for me as far as the cold is concerned. 

Edited September 28, 2018 by Luisa39