What are "exceptional circumstances" for validation/Would it just be easier to start from scratch?

[ZakuConvoy]

...Yeah, that's fair.  But, there might be an argument to be made that the "recent progress" is what's killing the forum in the first place (again, if that's even true).

[facet]

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[Selene]

Also: the validation process has been the way it is for quite some time. It has proved to be a good "gatekeeper" to make this forum a safe space. I joined 10 years ago and had to go through the validation process as well back then.

To imply that the validation process (which was the starting point of the discussion) and the current predicament of the staff are connected is just not right (edit to clarify: to imply that the validation process is partly to blame for the "death of the forum" or the small numbers of members of staff). 

I don't consider the process of validation outdated. 

Maybe we do have lesser numbers of new members since minors were forbidden to join, which is one of the current changes. But this change was necessary to protect minors since this is a fetish community after all. 

Staff are doing their best to make the forum a safe space and a good experience for all members. But they are only humans after all, with their own lives and struggles. They have families, jobs, and responsibilities and this forum is huge with tons of content to check and keep an eye on. It takes a lot of time to moderate this place and given the small number of mods and staff in general, it still runs very smoothly, which only shows how much work our staff put into their job. I've seen forums much smaller than this with twice as many members of staff, so kudos to all of the people who manage to run this place  ♥️

[Feo]

I need to point out some things that I consider highly important:

Firstly:  We must be careful about considering this place as dead. It might be a self fulfilling prophecy. We can make it active by contributing. We can choose this (to some extent). When people read that this is a dying place, they stop coming here/logging in/posting etc. I (and I hope we) don't want that!

Secondly: I'm really sorry the staff probably feels overworked and not appreciated. I have no problems understanding that. We need to make sure that we appreciate them and their hard work for US as a community. What I'm really grateful for is their efforts on making this a safe place! For me that is a really important thing! I hope there is some way to make more staff/administraters to lessen the burden on just a few individuals.

Best of wishes for this forum and everyone working for this being a safe and good place for everyone!

 

[facet]

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[PuddinPop]

I'm sorry that having access to the Adult Board/PM function is so vitally important to you, ZakuConvoy, but I would never consider ever binning the validation process just so people can do that as soon as they join. There are still minors here. The protection of our members is one of staff's top priorities, if not THE top priority, and I wouldn't sit by and allow that to be jeopardised just because someone is impatient about being able to see adult content. It's not a viable solution. 

And no, the validation process is not responsible for any issues on the forum at present. The validation process was around before I joined. I had to be validated. It's just how it is. Also, we asked the Mods about being Admins, but even if they wanted it, it's not as simple as that. It's horrifically complicated to learn how to run the forum, and just isn't as simple as appointing an admin and leaving them to it. 

I'm in talks with the Owner right now about what's going to happen. Until then, everyone is just going to have to be patient. 

[Chanel_no5]

3 minutes ago, PuddinPop said:

Until then, everyone is just going to have to be patient. 

You're doing a fantastic job, Puds! Thank you so, so much!  

Same goes for the rest of staff. You're amazing, and I'm sorry that we behave like entitled brats sometimes. Please know that you're all very much appreciated even if we don't always let you know that. I understand that it doesn't feel that way sometimes, but we really, really do.  

 

[Feo]

5 minutes ago, PuddinPop said:

I'm in talks with the Owner right now about what's going to happen. Until then, everyone is just going to have to be patient.

Thanks 's @PuddinPop

I also appreciate that you give answers on what you can give answers on!

 

[facet]

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[Shay]

I really appreciate that you were able to get in touch with HoL, @PuddinPop and are willing to take the time to work on things more, even if it means having to take the forum down temporarily(read the announcements for those that haven't yet). I think it's a more than reasonable course of action under the circumstances and we can all live without the forum for a weekend or even a few weekends if it will help start to

get things back on track.

[Sneezeonme]

Thank you !!! even though I’m not validated I still enjoy the places I can see very much. I really would be crushed if anything you happened to this forum.

[ZakuConvoy]

5 hours ago, facet said:

That's really unfair to say

Our staff worked tirelessly making the changes to make this place safer and to protect minors

To say you'll thank the staff and then say that... Is frankly really rude and just makes you seem disingenuous 

You're right.  I'm sorry.  I was being snippy and snide because...this is kind of a shock to me.  I knew there was only one admin, but I didn't realize we were in jeopardy of losing ALL the admins.  

And at this point, this isn't about the validation system anymore.  Its more the longterm health of the forum.  I can live without the Adult Forum (and other stuff like the Search system and editing my own posts), but I'd rather not see the whole forum close over lack of staff.  I'm assuming not having any Admins around would be a VERY BAD THING.

And it sounded to me like other members thought that the Owner wasn't even around anymore to help out PuddinPop with approving new Admins before she was scheduled to leave.  I...don't know if that's actually true, it's just the impression other members are leaving on me.  Look, all I've got to go on is heresy and rumor and what's posted in this thread to go on.  It sounded like the Owner hadn't been around in years.  Maybe that was just my imagination.

 

I'm sorry that it sounded like I don't appreciate all the hard work the staff has done over the years.  I do.  I'm sorry that I sounded impatient.  I am, but I should have been more appreciative.  I'm sorry for being rude.  This is a stressful thing for all of us.  I'm...sorry.

[Travel]

Again, I'd like to stress the great job the mods do here. It really is one of the nicest forums I've ever attended. Please let us know how we can make things easier for the mods and admins. 

[Bondi]

11 minutes ago, Travel said:

Again, I'd like to stress the great job the mods do here. It really is one of the nicest forums I've ever attended. Please let us know how we can make things easier for the mods and admins. 

I'm sure posts like this make things a lot easier and nicer for the staff. I was on staff a long long time ago, so I definitely know how tough it can be, so yeah, appreciation does go a long way.

[Travel]

2 minutes ago, Bondi said:

I'm sure posts like this make things a lot easier and nicer for the staff. I was on staff a long long time ago, so I definitely know how tough it can be, so yeah, appreciation does go a long way.

Sweet! If they keep doing such a great job I'll keep writing them! 😄

[normandy]

Thank you @PuddinPop for everything that you do!! I'm grateful for the work that you and the other mods/admins put in to keep this ship sailing. If there's any way we can make life easier for you guys, I'm all for it.

Circling back here--I don't think that this forum is anywhere near being a ghost town. I think the fact that an event like Secret Santa generates buzz and that people care enough to make awesome gifts prove that there is an active and engaged membership here. I also look forward to checking the forum daily, since I know it to be a place of positivity and support.

Plus, as a validating member, I have no issue with the validation system. We need to keep everyone safe.

[PuddinPop]

20 hours ago, ZakuConvoy said:

And it sounded to me like other members thought that the Owner wasn't even around anymore to help out PuddinPop with approving new Admins before she was scheduled to leave.

This is true. The Owner isn't actively around anymore, due to personal commitments, and hasn't been for over 12 months. But he still pays the bills (shocker: the forum isn't free to run) so that is more than 99% of the forum membership are able to provide. Enkidom is another Admin, but he also has personal commitments outside of the forum, and hasn't been around for some months. So, at present, it is just me that can deal with Admin tasks. And there are a lot of them. 

I think the main issue is that people don't appreciate just how much work it is to run this place. Members can't and don't see what goes on behind the scenes, so cannot possible know just how much upkeep a forum of this size takes. Trust me when I say that it is a lot. Just as an example, there was over a month's worth of members waiting to be approved last month, and it took me 5 solid hours just to work through that load. 

I'm not going into the details of exactly how much work there is to be done here, but I can almost guarantee that it all won't be done in one weekend. I'm just one person who has a life outside of here (kids, full time job, a wedding to plan, etc.) And 50+ post validations are going to have to take a backseat for now, but I will get to them eventually. 

I appreciate that you're impatient and stressed by this, ZakuConvoy, but trust me, you're not the only one. Having to do these validations is a lot more stressful than sitting around waiting to be validated. It will get looked at in the near future, but it might take some time, that's all. It's pretty low down on the to-do list for me atm; there are other aspects that need to take priority. So I appreciate your apology, but I'm afraid you're going to have to wait for a bit longer. 

Also, thank you to everyone for the support shown in this thread, and for all the messages I have been sent privately. It's very easy to feel underappreciated in this job, so to see positive posts and support means a lot. So thank you~ 

[iojo]

I'm wondering this stuff too

[Prodigy]

A big part of the reason why I left the forum staff, other than personal commitments, was the entitled people in the membership who felt that nothing the staff did was ever good enough or fast enough or fair enough. 

Administration is a voluntary job. Moderation is a voluntary job. And you can get your rocks off from over a decade and a half of content that's available even to lurkers.

Pushy people have never been validated as a first priority. I do realize that the lack of admins has created a backlog, but this is not the first post that has been made by some of the people in this thread who have basically demanded to be validated or else they'll make more work for the administration. Why? What are you so greedy about? 

Number of posts is very low down on the criteria to be validated. Not harassing the staff about how you think you should be given open access to the forum is certainly higher. After all, for every member that is validated, a real human being must sit down in front of his/her computer (probably during a private moment -- you're not browsing the forum with your family milling around, and they're not performing their duties under those conditions, either) and read through the posts that you have made to determine whether or not you should have unfettered access to other members' contact information, personal preferences, and direct contact through private messages. It's not an action that can be taken in bulk, and the barriers to complete membership have been put in place because we have dealt with far too many nasty individuals who froth at the mouth for the opportunity to privately harass.

PuddinPop, you are doing an admirable job considering that you've been left in a less-than-desirable position. As a former mod (and member since 2002, when this board picked up from where the old left off) I know how high the demands can be, and how demoralizing it must be to hear that a significant portion of your free time is tending to a "ghost town" that's "circling the drain". It's certainly not your fault, and your hard work has not gone unnoticed.

To the new folks who are feeling frustrated, I urge you to remember the human. Your fellow members, the moderators, and the administration are all real-life people on the other side of the computer screen, with jobs and families and health issues and whatever else life throws at them. Clearly, many of the staff members have evaporated because their IRL lives have taken priority (as well life should!) and the very few who remain are juggling real-life demands as well. You'll get validated, eventually, or you won't and you'll just have to deal with it.

[MeForever]

I agree with what @gone said. I also want to thank all the staff on this site for keeping the forum safe and doing such a good job. I've been around on this forum for almost two and a half years and I can't imagine how hard it must be to run a forum like this.

[tma]

@PuddinPop I just wanted to say that you are *absolutely* steller.  Seriously, you have so much going and youh stepped *back* in.  I feel so guilty.

I did try thinking about re-joining (and I do feel guilt, because some or all of y'all are at *least* as busy as I am, if not more so).

Just for different reasons, I can't at the present time.  

I truly miss so many people, especially since I have myself in a slightly different head space than where I was at one point in time, so I may try to connect (might not be often, but still...) on a Discord (haven't used one before though ).

Anyway..... - love you guys ❤❤, and Staff you rock!  👏👊It is a thankless job that can definitely eat up whatever little free time you have, and sometimes even suck away your enjoyment of the forum.

[bloom]

My "circling the drain" comment was in no way a jab at the staff, maybe I didn't make that clear enough in my post. It is circumstantial and while that understaffing of the forum is a contributing factor (through no fault of the current staff), it largely falls on the way membership has changed over the years. I don't take back what I said because I still think it's true, but it wasn't meant to be a shot at the staff and I'm sorry if it came across that way.

[snzmn2016]

I've been here almost three years posting without validation, I have long since given up hope. I appreciate your dedication and passion to continue this challenging journey.

[LeapYearKisses]

9 hours ago, Jejune said:

My "circling the drain" comment was in no way a jab at the staff, maybe I didn't make that clear enough in my post. It is circumstantial and while that understaffing of the forum is a contributing factor (through no fault of the current staff), it largely falls on the way membership has changed over the years. I don't take back what I said because I still think it's true, but it wasn't meant to be a shot at the staff and I'm sorry if it came across that way.

Yes, along those lines, I'll apologize for saying "ghost town" in my earlier post as well.  The forum is and has always been a bounty of very creative and kind  people, and the fact that there's not as much content here that I want to partake of is a me problem, not a forum, member, or staff problem.  I certainly didn't mean to cast aspersions on any of the members or the staff who have been continuing to contribute, and I'm actually going to try and contribute more myself!

[Joal 555]

Whilst it may be true that the forum is less active than it used to be, it still attracts regular traffic and in some ways, I find the current situation preferable to the past, partly because we no longer have hundreds of roleplay posts every day (which many people found very off putting) and partly because (from a selfish point of view) it is easier to catch up on what I have missed if there are (I'm guessing here) 50 posts per day rather than 200.

As far as staffing is concerned, I know from my experience of 4 years (two as a mod and two as an admin) how much work needs to be done and how much of their own time staff members put in on a voluntary basis to keep the forum running as smoothly as possible. Of course, just like any group of people, not all members will agree with all the decisions that are made and that's to be expected and absolutely fine, but it is very easy to feel unappreciated and that made it easier to finish at the time that I did (I must stress I would have finished at the point I did in any case - I don't think anybody on staff does it in order to be thanked, but human nature is such that you are likely to feel more inclined to continue doing something, the more appreciated you feel). The biggest single reason for me leaving the staff was the sheer amount of time I was putting in, which after 4 years made it feel like a second job!

For that reason, I tip my hat @PuddinPop who not only did several years on staff, mainly as an admin, but recently returned to help out within a few months of finishing her first stint. As others have said, we should all be hugely grateful to her for what she has done and what she still does. She truly cares about the forum and its members and despite juggling family and work commitments she keeps giving more.

I have therefore offered to help Puds with some admin duties on an occasional basis (it might be very occasional!). I am certainly not rejoining the staff on a full time basis! I have no desire to deal with day to day modding matters again, with the time, work (and sometimes stress!) involved with that. Once again, I thank anyone who has done so in the past, at the moment or (potentially) in the future.

Whether I can help, or how much I can help, will depend on a number of variables, including my own availability, the order that Puds wants to do things to move things forwards and many other practical issues. 

In the meantime, and again as others have said, it is up to all of us (whether pending, validated, long standing members or whatever) to be patient and recognise that whatever matters may be outstanding, we still have an active, safe AND FREE forum to participate in, to make friends on and basically to escape from "real life" whenever we need or want to.