Hayfever (and sneezing? ) unmasculine ?

[atchoum]

Jonathan Agnew, the BBC cricket commentator, recently made this statement:

Is there a less masculine affliction in the world than hayfever? Sneezing, a runny nose and swollen eyes does not scream 'hard-nosed geezer' does it?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/solpda/ukfs_sport/hi...5.stm?page_id=2

This ties in with popular male treatment of the sneeze in France. One sneeze goes unnoticed. At the second, there is generally a "merde"! and then everything possible is done to prevent a third. Habitual multiple sneezers know to stifle from the beginning.

But why should this be? No one would say that it is particularly feminine to sneeze or have hayfever either, so where is this coming from ?

[morediscreetkid]

I agree, I dont know why, but i do think allergies and sneezing and all that jazz is more for girls, thats why if I am around people I try to not sneeze as much as possible and stifle to go unnoticed, Especcially when Im at work, I just think it might be a sign of weakness.

[vignette]

Hmm... I'm actually rather interested in this. I definitely think hayfever could be seen as a sign of being bookish, or indoorsy, rather than a more gung-ho stereotypically macsuline type. Perhaps this is because it's rather difficult to play summer sports outside if your allergies are acting up?

I would like to say, however, that I'm sure the stereotype isn't true. One of the most sporty chaps (and I use 'chap' because this gentleman is the epitome of the word) in my college was very prone to sneezing fits on the corquet lawn this term (yes, we have a croquet lawn. Yes, I realise the impression that gives of where I study), and no one ever thought of him as less than masculine.

On another note, I now feel I must write a story about terribly handsome and allergic cricket players...

[count tiszula]

I don't know wht Aggers thinks he is up to, possibly an attack on some particular cricketer, because I am also fascinated by cricket as "the sneezy game". After all it must be the only game where an England international [ooops, I mean MCC] resigned from representing his country because his hay fever sneezes were so enormous that they were putting the bowlers off their pace when he was fielding at deep fine leg. It really does seem an obvious theme for a sneezefic.

However, although I spent my youth lounging in the long grass watching my fellows sneeze, I did also notice that going from school to the Varsity, the amount of male sneezing dropped radically; it is possible, I suppose, that part of the hearty upbringing is to suppress all sneezes after the age of about sixteen.

But that's not even counting the photicnesse. Indeed I wonder whether our own Dear Leader ever encounters any interesting problems when knocking an effortless instinctive century off the wiliest left arm spinner.

[Vetinari]

I just think it might be a sign of weakness.

Oh yes but such a beautiful weakness don't you think * makes mental note to go out and watch more cricket *

[Secret98]

My honest opinion on whether or not allergies/sneezing/colds (and any of the above) are masculine or not is: I think it is both masculine and feminine. I think it can be so cute when a guy does sneeze Almost all animals sneeze males and females. I think for someone to think that any of that is not masculine they had to be brought up that way, either by friends or parents. I wasn't brought up that way, and actually find a hot guy sneezing to be very masculine, and sexy I know not many people would agree with me that a hot guy sneezing can be very masculine, but it can be in my eyes. I think the fact is that it depends on who is looking at this subject.

[Trillium]

Personally (for obvious reasons) I don't think it is unmasculine for a man to have allergies.

But perhaps it ties into that whole sickness-as-weakness issue -- men who are sick (or who have a chronic medical condition) tend to see themselves as weak and, hence, unmasculine, and men probably view other men the same way. I agree with Vignette -- the stereotype of an allergic person is one who is introverted and bookish -- hardly society's view of a masculine man.

[Geist]

Gimme a freakin' BREAK.

A sign of WEAKNESS? For GIRLS?!?! GOOD GRIEF, that sounds absolutely ignorant! That's like saying CRYING is a sign of weakness. Holy crap, you've got to be kidding me....

Mr. Aku has TERRIBLE hayfever and the man has a black belt in Aikido and ranks high in three other martial arts. Clearly, he's feminine. I think it's the sexiest thing in the world to see him sneeze in his allergic, fittish way and nothing....NOTHING....looks "girly" about it. His sneezes are powerful, body-wracking events. I've seen the man do Judo through his hayfever with no problem, so sneezing or not, he can still kick ass.

What the heck....a statement like that is positively ridiculous.

~Aku

[vote_for_pedro]

I've never heard of this Agnew guy before, but maybe he has really old fashioned ideas about masculinity. As in showing weakness automatically puts you in the wussy club. It's better to walk with a manly swagger, scratch your balls, beat your chest with your fists, and spit. Real men don't let that bitch Mother Nature get the best of them and cause their nose to run. NO! That's not a manly thing to do.

[Coral]

Well… perhaps not.. unmasculine. But certainly a bit helpless.

But you know.. That is the exact thing that turns me on so much about sneezing!

I dunno… I guess it makes me feel more superior? I love it when a guy looses control for a moment, and his body gets bend over helplessly by a sneeze.

I love the fact that he himself feels less masculine and maybe even a bit embarrassed about it..

God.. I feel so weird!!

[VoOs]

Well… perhaps not.. unmasculine. But certainly a bit helpless.

But you know.. That is the exact thing that turns me on so much about sneezing!

I dunno… I guess it makes me feel more superior? I love it when a guy looses control for a moment, and his body gets bend over helplessly by a sneeze.

I love the fact that he himself feels less masculine and maybe even a bit embarrassed about it..

God.. I feel so weird!!

You are NOT wierd! That's exactly the reason why I find sneezing so sexy: the helplessness, the loss of control...and then the embarrassment. I also have a thing for crying and laughing, and that's the same thing there. It makes the guy look so vulnerable and utterly...human (is that the right word ) Anyway: we are a LOT of people around here who feel the same about that, so you're not wierd at all!

[chui]

OH BLOODY FRICKING HECK!!!!!

im sorry, i just cant believe this....i love to see guys sneeze, and hayfever is just hot to me...and this may sound a bit odd, but bear with me...i dont date wimps. i dont like to date guys that i could beat up, but not because im some butch tough chick...or because im some uber-fighter...im not, its a protection issue..which would be better discussed elsewhere....to the point...why whould i ever consider something so insanely hot as hayfever and multiple sneezes to be a sign of weakness???? its not..its incredibly sexy when a guy can just let loose with a sneeze, and not be ashamed of it, even better if they have a sheepish grin after, like they know they did something, but dont wanna fess up.

im just flabbergasted that anyone could consider this to be weakness. i mean its not like they are having chronic anal seepage which prevents physical activites and requires proximity to a toilet at all times. *not that chronic anal seepage is a weakness, im convinced its more of a discomfort* next thing, pissing will be a masculine trait and all women who answer the call of nature will be masculine....and incredibly strong!!

well....ok...i guess ive rambled incoherently long enough...bottom line, i dont feel that hayfever and sneezing is weak for a man...or that it is a feminine trait. its just natural. btw...im not attacking anyone's opinions here, its just very early for me and if i seem a bit snotty, i apologize.

[morediscreetkid]

OH BLOODY FRICKING HECK!!!!!

im sorry, i just cant believe this....i love to see guys sneeze, and hayfever is just hot to me...and this may sound a bit odd, but bear with me...i dont date wimps. i dont like to date guys that i could beat up, but not because im some butch tough chick...or because im some uber-fighter...im not, its a protection issue..which would be better discussed elsewhere....to the point...why whould i ever consider something so insanely hot as hayfever and multiple sneezes to be a sign of weakness???? its not..its incredibly sexy when a guy can just let loose with a sneeze, and not be ashamed of it, even better if they have a sheepish grin after, like they know they did something, but dont wanna fess up.

im just flabbergasted that anyone could consider this to be weakness. i mean its not like they are having chronic anal seepage which prevents physical activites and requires proximity to a toilet at all times. *not that chronic anal seepage is a weakness, im convinced its more of a discomfort* next thing, pissing will be a masculine trait and all women who answer the call of nature will be masculine....and incredibly strong!!

well....ok...i guess ive rambled incoherently long enough...bottom line, i dont feel that hayfever and sneezing is weak for a man...or that it is a feminine trait. its just natural. btw...im not attacking anyone's opinions here, its just very early for me and if i seem a bit snotty, i apologize.

With all do respect mame, of course you think its hot and not a weakness you have a sneezing fetish. Think of people, like say girls, who dont have the fetish watchin some guy have a sneeze attack, or allergie attack, they may think its groose, or funny, might say "jee are you gonna be alright", along the lines of that, might think hes a lil weakkk. For example I work construction with a bunch of guys, and there is a lot of dust around from wood and stuff, probaly not good to breath in in the first place, but if i would to start sneezing a lot I know id get some business like "O what cant handle the dust, do u want a face mask pussy" somethin like that, thats why I dont want to sneeze in public.

[Geist]

With all do respect mame, of course you think its hot and not a weakness you have a sneezing fetish. Think of people, like say girls, who dont have the fetish watchin some guy have a sneeze attack, or allergie attack, they may think its groose, or funny, might say "jee are you gonna be alright", along the lines of that, might think hes a lil weakkk. For example I work construction with a bunch of guys, and there is a lot of dust around from wood and stuff, probaly not good to breath in in the first place, but if i would to start sneezing a lot I know id get some business like "O what cant handle the dust, do u want a face mask pussy" somethin like that, thats why I dont want to sneeze in public.

I'm........not sure I understood half of that, buuut.....

Here's a shock:

Chui has only had this fetish for a few months! So no, her point is VERY valid. SHe hasn't always had this fetish and she's probably never seen sneezing as a "weakness" regardless. I've known her for a long time and when I told her of my love for sneezing, she was very intrigued and understood it immediately. For me, it's VERY sound based. Desperation. Hnnnggghh.....

Plus, here's a flipside for you. It's a REAL turn-off to a lot of girls when guys walk around trying to be "all manly" all the time. In fact, most women I know find it VERY sexy when a man can do something that requires a "loss of control" and acknowledge it without trying to cover it with a bunch of macho bovine fecal matter suggestions. It's VERY SEXY when a man is so comfortable with himself that he can say, "whoops, that was totally HUMAN of me!" and just accept it and move on.

[Bondi]

Okay, if people think sneezing is so unmanly, then how come a lot of women stifle, but most men just sneeze when they have to sneeze, and some men do it really loudly and obnoxiously?

[liricospinto]

I think Bondi has an excellent point, there.

I would argue in reverse of the sneezing=unmasculine proposal, and suggest instead that noisemaking is masculine, and since nice big sneezes make noise, it's just as masculine as say . . . hmmmmm. Flatulence? No, that's not a good comparison. It's late, I shouldn't be typing. But anyway, hopefully my point is clear, even without a good comparison.

Belching? No, that's no good, either.

But guys are generally less self-conscious about making loud noises in public. It's a guy thing to do. Sneezing is loud. Sneezing must therefore be testosterone-laden.

[Trillium]

Okay, if people think sneezing is so unmanly, then how come a lot of women stifle, but most men just sneeze when they have to sneeze, and some men do it really loudly and obnoxiously?

Rather than split this along male/female lines, I think that it may have something to do with assertiveness. Many women aren't all that assertive, and many men are. However, we all know men who have mental blocks (not referring to anyone in particular here, really! ) and women who let their sneezes fly.

And as one of the posters above observed, many men think other men with allergies are weak and unmasculine, while women. . . . well, as can be seen above, women may not think that. (At least not on this board!)

[chui]

With all do respect mame, of course you think its hot and not a weakness you have a sneezing fetish. Think of people, like say girls, who dont have the fetish watchin some guy have a sneeze attack, or allergie attack, they may think its groose, or funny, might say "jee are you gonna be alright", along the lines of that, might think hes a lil weakkk. For example I work construction with a bunch of guys, and there is a lot of dust around from wood and stuff, probaly not good to breath in in the first place, but if i would to start sneezing a lot I know id get some business like "O what cant handle the dust, do u want a face mask pussy" somethin like that, thats why I dont want to sneeze in public.

well, as Aku pointed out, i haven't had this fetish for long. and ive never had a problem with guys with allergies. im not even a cold-whore or a motherly type, but i always thought it was cute when guys sneezed, and the more the better!! i dont know if it was the desperate sound, or the total unhindered aura of confidence, but ive never seen it as something to be ashamed of. there will always be a difference between allergies and colds and being sickly. honestly, i have guy friends who ARE sickly, they have debilitating illnesses, and you know, it doesnt make them any less manly. it just means they have an illness. this really is just how ive always thought, and i just cant understand how it could be seen otherwise, but im sorry that any man is looked down on for somthing natural. it really isnt fair.

and please.....PLEASE..... dont call me ma'am... i dont even let my students do that!!!

[Sneesee]

Personally, I think that people who say such things are just jealous. They wish they had hay fever, and sneezed a lot!!! And I do agree with everyone that has so far said that many men do tend to let their sneezes out, while many women stifle. If sneezing and hayfever are unmasculine, then why do they let them out so freely?

[Bondi]

Okay, if people think sneezing is so unmanly, then how come a lot of women stifle, but most men just sneeze when they have to sneeze, and some men do it really loudly and obnoxiously?

Rather than split this along male/female lines, I think that it may have something to do with assertiveness. Many women aren't all that assertive, and many men are. However, we all know men who have mental blocks (not referring to anyone in particular here, really! ) and women who let their sneezes fly.

And as one of the posters above observed, many men think other men with allergies are weak and unmasculine, while women. . . . well, as can be seen above, women may not think that. (At least not on this board!)

Well, I wasn't speaking about myself personally but in general, at least in my area. I've also read on the net of women stifled or tried to hold back altogether because they were afraid their sneezes might not be very ladylike. And my mental block is purely fetish-related anyway, so that's from my own issues, but whatever. In any case, I guess it's probably one of those things were it depends on what area of the world you're in and stuff like that. I can only recall one tme where someone got really upset at another person for sneezing too much, and he said that that shit bothered him, and I figure that was probably more along the lines of a germophobe thing. And while I don't sneeze around people, I have admitted that I had allergies and no one ever gave me shit for being unmanly. Most of the time if someone sneezes too loudly or has a fit people would laugh and joke about it, but there isn't any overt hostility toward the person.

[Sapphire]

Well, I've heard and read it in many places that allergies are not masculine because they indicate that the guy has a delicate and sensitive body that can't stand up to life or something like that. Remember that movie Sleepless in Seattle? I'm pretty sure that's the movie. In it, Meg Ryan is engaged to a man, and she is starting to get interested in Tom Hanks instead. There is a scene in which her fiance is at the dinner table and sneezes a few times from allergies, and the symbolism is clearly that he is a boring and wimpy and effeminate guy and so much inferior to Tom Hanks.

O.K., so really, what I think about allergies or sneezing being unmasculine is what I think about most things that have been labeled either masculine or feminine. I think most of it is pointless categorization and doesn't stand up to reality. I also think it unnecessarily limits people's behavior if they become worried about fitting into these categories too much.

[Bondi]

Never seen that movie and don't want to, but anyway, allergies also tend to have a bit of a dorky, geeky, nerdy image as well on some TV shows, movies, etc., where you would have this stereotypical nerd who also happens to have allergies.

[chui]

You know, it just occured to me that this whole thing illustrates some of the completely REDICULOUS expectations that are placed on men in our society. It's not like it's any less stupid to expect men to be without weakness than it is to expect women to be subserviant.

very true.

PLEASE..... dont call me ma'am... i dont even let my students do that!!!

He didn't. He called you "mame", clearly you have been performing in the play Auntie Mame and have not informed us! *flees*

*chases and POUNCES*

*pulls out feather*

*this message has been edited.....to find out just what i'm going to do to Fifi, tell the rest of the forum one of my other deep dark secrets, and you'll get first hand experience*

(threadjack says what?!?)

[count tiszula]

Having thought more about this, and given that Aggers and I probably had similar upbringings, I do recall thinking that it was sissy/girly for boys to cough a lot; it seemed so easy then to hold coughs in. Of course with sneezing my feelins were fatally fetishised, but I seem to recall t hat sneezing a lot was seen as a bit weak, hence girly.

I think that the paradox identified above works like this; a manly man should try to hold back sneezes, coughs etc, but if he is absolutely overcome by sneeziness, he should make it apparent just how unbelievably strong his sneezes are to make him lose control; ie he should sneeze as violently as possible. Mostly therefore stifling is unmanly as it is like a girl trying to be ladylike.

In fact this brings back seminal fetishy moments fromwhen I was about 9.

At the risk of getting personal, one has only to compare various hold-back .wavs. Although the pointof the .wav is clearly to sneeze a lot, Allentown actually wins his wager; by contrast Susie loses her battle quite early [thank goodness]. And Scarlett sneezes particularly violently, to indicate the inevitability of the sneeze. I need hardly add that all of them are equally wonderful, talented sneezers.

[Bombast]

Never seen that movie and don't want to, but anyway, allergies also tend to have a bit of a dorky, geeky, nerdy image as well on some TV shows, movies, etc., where you would have this stereotypical nerd who also happens to have allergies.

The best friend to the lead character in The Wonder Years would be a good example. Yet when women sneeze on camera it is quite often portrayed as being akin to an orgasm, complete with melodramatic buildup.