UK members- how do you feel about the 'British' term? Other members please post as well :)

[Sneeze999]

why the Commonwealth as well?

Mostly as a kind of 'screw you' to the UK after the way we have been treated, although i don't really think it would be necessary for us to leave the commonwealth. As long as we don't join the EU if we do leave! lol

Lol fair enough, if push came to shove though do you think that people in Jersey would really vote to leave? Or do you think it's also kind of more of a warning to Westminster to stop treating you guys like crap? Apart from the way Westminster has treated you guys, do people like being part of the union there?

We are quite happy to be a part of the commonwealth, but most islanders would rather we were not a part of the UK, at least at the moment. Although leaving would entail alot of changes. Our passports would have to change, we would have to declare ourselves as a sovreign nation and all that, so perhaps the ramifications could be a little too much for now.

[SneezySal]

I come from Leeds, which is in Yorkshire, which is in England, which is part of Britain, which is in Europe, which is part of the world.

I'm happy to be identified as ANY of the above.....and I think of myself as ALL of the above

I coulnd't agree more.

BUT

I have a problem with the term "British English" (referring to language) for that reason. Let me try to explain.

I am English, and I'm British. The latter refers to only to my geographic origin. The former implies geography, culture and language.

Firstly, English is the language we speak in England, just as French is the languiage spoken in France. Just because they speak a somewhat altered version of French in Quebec doesn't mean that we have to refer to that which Parisians speak as "French French". No, that would be silly. It's just "French".

Secondly, a number of friends of mine from Wales (or Cymru if you prefer) see themselves as speaking Welsh, which is nothing like English, as their first language. They understandably don't want to be lumped with us English simply because people at Microsoft don't know there are other languages in Britain.

Hmpf!

[tma]

That makes complete sense. Although I *think* and I may be wrong that with Quebec the French spoken there is referred to as Québécois. I think that biggest English vs. English thing is US v. England. I know that if someone from Wales or Ireland is speaking the native language that I'd say that they were speaking Gaelic or Welsh.

They understandably don't want to be lumped with us English simply because people at Microsoft don't know there are other languages in Britain.

This just made me chuckle for some reason. Silly Microsoft people!

I just thought of something that might be *somewhat* connecting. In the US the dividing issue isn't our states- it is racial. **The difference also being that we are *one* nation-state** Which... looking at this thread- relates in a way. There is history- deep history which includes oppression. Of course with black/white issues in the US there is additionally the background of slavery thrown in there. But... anyway- I think that it is similar because this type of history affects people in subtle ways centuries later. There is things that connect but also divide and identification I would imagine would be complex- because there things that unite but there are deep and complex divisions.

Ok... you may now laugh and throw rotten produce at the goofy American. - nothing sharp.

[count tiszula]

As this thread develops, I get more and more exercised by what on earth non-Britons would think of it; but clearly it's just me who is going mad, not the generality.

It's unlikely that, say a South African would ever read it, but what would someone from a country only a century old, like so many, united after huge struggles, riven by multiple ethnic differences, make of a country like the UK which has been united for four centuries, which has presided over a world-wide empire,and where there is virtually no racial difference in the populace, or at least not along the political divisions, which arose purely by historical accident, apparently tearing itself apart.?

When the kilted pipers marched to relieve Lucknow playing "The Campbells are coming" why didn't they establish a Scottish Empire in India? When King Edwin of Northumbria built famous Edinburgh as part of his English Kingdom, why didn't the English settled all along the East coast of Britain from Wick to Lowestoft declare that they were Scots?

Yet now anyone who even suggests that the Union is a good thing and worth preserving must be anti-Scottish and therefore racist.

I would hate to contradict a Jerseyman, so it is clear that Wikipedia has succumbed to another hoax, as their entry on Jersey says that that fairest isle is not in the UK or the EU, or as far as I can gather, in the Commonwealth, except insofar as the Duke of Normandy is Head of the Commonwealth. In fact it is difficult to see what it is exactly that they want to be independent from.

Well at least no one can now claim that I am wrong when I say that England is the worst country in the world, and English the worst, most difficult and least useful language., Any Americans would be well advised to learn Cornish, the true language of the fathers

[tma]

Yet now anyone who even suggests that the Union is a good thing and worth preserving must be anti-Scottish and therefore racist.

Errr... *I* wasn't implying that pro- Union = racist. Just pondering if inter-UK relations might be complex in a way vaguely similar to racial relations in the US.

Any Americans would be well advised to learn Cornish, the true language of the fathers

That would mean that Americans would have to *admit* that there are languages other than English and bother to learn one.

*said with tongue firmly in cheek*

[count tiszula]

Yet now anyone who even suggests that the Union is a good thing and worth preserving must be anti-Scottish and therefore racist.

Errr... *I* wasn't implying that pro- Union = racist. Just pondering if inter-UK relations might be complex in a way vaguely similar to racial relations in the US.

Sadly, I was describing the current real situation, and certainly not accusing you of anything.

As we now gather that racial abuse is protected by first amendment rights, it must be difficult for Americans to imagine that calling someone a one-eyed Scottish idiot, even though it is not defamatory, is objectionable as being racist and indeed potentially illegal. Indeed I sometimes wonder if you can say any completely true statement about a self-declared minority. For example." the population of Scotland is one tenth that of England," or "for fifteen years UK politics has been dominated by Scots".

Still, it's nice to know I'm not the only person here writing tongue in cheek....

[Vetinari]

It's unlikely that, say a South African would ever read it, but what would someone from a country only a century old, like so many, united after huge struggles, riven by multiple ethnic differences, make of a country like the UK which has been united for four centuries, which has presided over a world-wide empire,and where there is virtually no racial difference in the populace, or at least not along the political divisions, which arose purely by historical accident, apparently tearing itself apart.?

They'd probably think it quite natural, and wish that they could do the same.

[SneezySal]

Just to admit that there is a language called English, and not "British English" would be a start. And (I know it's off-topic, but) while I'm waving my arms madly about Microsoft, who on their staff decided that we should write ordinal abbreviations (1st, 15th, and so on) as a superscript? Accepted style has always had them on the line.

-- Angry of Mayfair

[Bubbles]

In fairness to Giant Steps, i can see where he's coming from slightly- in June this year there was a historic meeting in Northern Ireland between The Queen and Deputy first minister Martin McGuiness ( former member of the IRA, now a member of Sinn Fein), basically for those that don't know they refuse to accept Northern Ireland as part of the union and sovereignty of The Queen, in one of their statements at the time, they kept referring to The Queen as 'Queen of England', this caused much irritation among a lot of people throughout the UK- may sound a little silly to some outsiders, but with all four countries future as a union is in question it create some nationality upset.

Martin McGuinness causes much irritation full stop As does most of the crap that goes on in N.Ireland - in case anyone hasn't seen it on the news recently, there have been riots outside my house for the past week because the union jack was taken down from the city hall in Belfast. I am British and I'd like the flag to be flying all year round, but I won't riot about it. I have more important things to do such as going to work, doing my Christmas shopping and playing computer games I do value my nationality, though.

[Vetinari]

in case anyone hasn't seen it on the news recently, there have been riots outside my house for the past week because the union jack was taken down from the city hall in Belfast.

Horrible for you Bubbles. The situation in Northern Ireland is much sadder than anything in Scotland. It certainly puts things in perspective.

for fifteen years UK politics has been dominated by Scots

Ah yes, but the top Scot had (to quote the Proclaimers... always worth doing when you want to stick out your tongue at an angle) flattened all his vowels and thrown the R away. Poor old John Smith. It could all have been so very different with a proper Scot at the top.....

Seen Canary for President! David Tennant for King. (Well why not?)

[Smokey]

In fairness to Giant Steps, i can see where he's coming from slightly- in June this year there was a historic meeting in Northern Ireland between The Queen and Deputy first minister Martin McGuiness ( former member of the IRA, now a member of Sinn Fein), basically for those that don't know they refuse to accept Northern Ireland as part of the union and sovereignty of The Queen, in one of their statements at the time, they kept referring to The Queen as 'Queen of England', this caused much irritation among a lot of people throughout the UK- may sound a little silly to some outsiders, but with all four countries future as a union is in question it create some nationality upset.

Martin McGuinness causes much irritation full stop As does most of the crap that goes on in N.Ireland - in case anyone hasn't seen it on the news recently, there have been riots outside my house for the past week because the union jack was taken down from the city hall in Belfast. I am British and I'd like the flag to be flying all year round, but I won't riot about it. I have more important things to do such as going to work, doing my Christmas shopping and playing computer games I do value my nationality, though.

Oh god how awful for you Bubbles i do hope and your family/friends are all safe, it really has been scary reading about this and seeing it on the news, i can't begin to imagine what it must be like to have that going on outside your front door- i do hope you personally haven't had any trouble?

I agree about McGuinness , though i think the Unionists/Loyalists or however they are referred as, that took part have really damaged their cause... Will be interesting to see what happens next- i just can't understand why they can't fly both flags side by side :/ after all surely that's what the good Friday agreement was about- sharing power in NI?(If i have got this wrong i do apologise)

[Guest]

British.

[The Dead One]

I'm an Englishman and proud of it. And do you know what? I don't care if that makes me sound racist or xenophobic. I have just as much right to take pride in my country and my heritage as everyone else. Some of my best friends are Scottish, or Welsh, and they're proud of it. So why is it not ok when people are proud of being English?

[count tiszula]

At the risk of getting tedious, the reason is simple.

England is the worst country in the world, and anyone who defends England is a Nazi.

2012 is finally over; a terrible year for all normal people. The whole country united by the Diamond Jubilee, the Olympics and the Paralympics. an event so right on as to be practically leftie=proof. But apparently that wasn't what upset the correct the most.................

[Jorm]

I'm an Englishman and proud of it. And do you know what? I don't care if that makes me sound racist or xenophobic. I have just as much right to take pride in my country and my heritage as everyone else. Some of my best friends are Scottish, or Welsh, and they're proud of it. So why is it not ok when people are proud of being English?

I think the problem is that a lot of people get confused about the difference between being proud of your heritage/nationality/country and believing that anyone from any other nationality or country is not as good as you. There shouldn't be anything wrong with being proud to be English (or anything else) so long as you don't look down on anyone else for not being English. Which in my experience you don't. It's very silly of people to think that you can only be proud of your country and heritage if they happen to be in a minority position.

[March Hare]

England is the worst country in the world, and anyone who defends England is a Nazi.

Of COURSE! That is why Hitler lost the war. Silly Nazis were defending England the whole time instead of conquering Europe!

[Zer0]

i hate the term 'British' as it is usually used for English people and not all members of Britain, i wouldn't mind it if people said like 'aw check out these British youtubers' and its a mix of English Scottish welsh but it never is, its always English people, I'm so tired of it :/

[March Hare]

i hate the term 'British' as it is usually used for English people and not all members of Britain, i wouldn't mind it if people said like 'aw check out these British youtubers' and its a mix of English Scottish welsh but it never is, its always English people, I'm so tired of it :/

Oh, right, 'cos ALL the good BBC panel shows out there only ever feature true-born English folks. You know, like Frankie Boyle and Dara O'Briain and Rhod Gilbert and Mark Watson and Ross Noble and... I don't need to go on, do I? Welcome to reality, sweetie. How's life been underneath Little Rock?

Seriously, I do not know ANY. British shows that don't feature a (not always but often enough) well-balanced mix of Welsh, Irish, Scottish, Scouse, Geordie, and Lunnon accents and everything in between.

[Jorm]

Seriously, I do not know ANY. British shows that don't feature a (not always but often enough) well-balanced mix of Welsh, Irish, Scottish, Scouse, Geordie, and Lunnon accents and everything in between.

You forgot about the Cornish you racist.

[count tiszula]

And there we have it.

Are you a British citizen, ZerO?

And for those of us unfortunate enough to be born in England, how would we refer to ourselves and others like us without being offensive?

[Jorm]

I'm just gonna go ahead and leave this here.

http://cheezburger.com/6795431680

[Vetinari]

Seriously, I do not know ANY. British shows that don't feature a (not always but often enough) well-balanced mix of Welsh, Irish, Scottish, Scouse, Geordie, and Lunnon accents and everything in between.

You forgot about the Cornish you racist.

Interesting. Haven't come across all that many mainstream comedians with Cornish accents in those shows.

And there we have it.

Are you a British citizen, ZerO?

And for those of us unfortunate enough to be born in England, how would we refer to ourselves and others like us without being offensive?

Perhaps we could just call ourselves The Evil Ones and leave it at that!

Zero, I can't say I have come across very much of that attitude in recent times in the mainstream media and the English can't help what goes on YouTube so it's hardly fair to hold it against them. I'd say that in recent times people are generally very careful. Andy Murray, for example is Scottish, and is well known to be Scottish, but also lauded now as a Brit. I enjoyed the Olympics (well the litle bits I managed to see once I had escaped from my hospital bed) partly because people from all parts of the UK were being cheered on and for once, it didn't seem to matter where they were from, although again it was generally acknowledged if they were from Scotland, as well as them being considered part of the British team. It's a shame that that feeling of being united as well as culturally distinct couldn't be spread more widely as to me, it was a great feeling. It's very sad that there is still so much feeling of dissent in other areas.

[count tiszula]

Much what I thought......

In addition, we could officially rename England "Horribleland".

This would lead to rewriting the last line of "Jerusalem" to read "In Horribleland's beige, unpleasant land." As well as emphasizing Blake's brilliant skills as a versifier, it would also add to his status as a top leftie. Unfortunately singing it would have to be forbidden as it is well known to be a Nazi anthem......

To further redeem ourselves, rather than waiting for the referendum, which is never going to get passed, why don't we just give Scotland back. It's all the rage these days, and has the advantage that it's somehow even more right on if the giving back is against the democratic will. Moreover, you can just give places back even if they;ve never been part of the new owner. I suggest we give Scotland back to Iraq., the home of anti-democracy...........

[Seeker of the Way]

As a young American, I have little to add to this conversation except to say that it reminds me of something C.S. Lewis (who was, I believe, Irish by birth but English by upbringing and education) said in "The Four Loves". When talking about patriotism, he remarked that in his experience, love of country was generally confined to that part of it in which one was actually raised and living. He said something to the effect that "only foreigners and politicians talk of Britain". Of course, he was living in a rather different age.

[Zer0]

I'm Scottish. Vetinari is kinda saying what i mean, like i liked at the Olympics how it was all different Brits like Scots English and Welsh because it IS British people, but it annoys when people are like 'SHES BRITISH!! oh and hes Welsh.' like hes still British but just doesn't get recognized as a Brit but because 'Britain' is usually depicted with a typical London accent or speaking proper the people that dont speak with those accent don't tend to get recognized as British, which is why i now hate the term British. Unless its being properly used, like at the Olympics or some other sporting event