Do you feel like the forum is more/less toxic than it used to be?

[skater]

I joined when I was 16. Despite thinking I was smart enough to avoid toxic relationships with people, I definitely was involved in some and witnessed more. Since then, I see fewer toxic relationships on the public forum but don't doubt that they're still happening behind closed doors. So I guess I think the forum is less toxic than it used to be but the community as a whole might not be. 

I also think there is now lesser potential for toxicity in the future. Like, I think a minor joining the forum today would be less likely to find toxic relationships here than I was when I joined 3.5 years ago. 

(I also want to add that, while the forum may now be a somewhat safer place, it also feels much less fun to me. I recognize that these changes are important but there is a part of me that misses how social it used to be  The older environment allowed me to meet some very important and positive people in my life.)

[black_mage]

I guess I've only seen the surface of what's going on here because I've very rarely talked to people personally and I've never been harassed probably because I'm a male and not very active. But reading about other people's experiences I see that there were some really nasty things being done in the past, like harassment and it's good that that kind of stuff isn't tolerated anymore, as it shouldn't be.

But recently I've felt that there's been a lot of other kind of nastiness going on, people attacking others even over some trivial things, often in a kind of a passive-aggressive manner. Also, a group of people punishing someone who has done something wrong can easily get out of hand and I feel like it has sometimes. It's all been going on in the snake pit though and I feel like it's dying down a bit now so I'm being positive and hoping that the atmosphere is getting better. 

[Vetinari]

Mostly in the past, it felt like there was a big loose group of friendly people who had been here a long time. People came and went and dropped in and out,  but some were almost always here. It wasn't perfect and yes, there were some sharks. there were also some fierce debates in the Pit, but there were generally people on both sides of the debate. 

I feel it is a lot more toxic now, mainly due to a small clique of people who, as someone else said upthread, have appointed themselves judge, jury and executioner of other members, sometimes on very flimsy grounds. There is a problem with people being openly attacked in the Pit who do not even have access and therefore have no power to defend themselves about the accusations that have been made. And debates are no longer possible, because the people who are still here either all agree with the only acceptable views as decreed by the chief clique member, or they keep away from the Pit and keep their heads down as they don't enjoy being lynched.

I think at this stage, it is probably the right thing to stop underage people openly joining the forum. It probably should have been done long ago. Perhaps it was wrong that it wasn't 18+ from the start, but then you might equally say it would have ended up being quite a different forum. More porn, less friendliness. Perhaps in the future, things will change. I know the chat had to be removed because the clique were bullying people so badly who didn't conform.

So all in all, I agree with those who feel it has become a worse place here. There used to be a friendly side and a porn side and maybe those things didn't sit that well together, but it was more of a community back then. I for one regret its passing. I see from the voting that a majority of others feel the same way. And that is sad.

[Anonymouse]

 

1 hour ago, Vetinari said:

I know the chat had to be removed because the clique were bullying people so badly who didn't conform.

I may have been misinformed, but my understanding is that the chatroom was lost with the forum upgrade. I don't recall any bullying in there, but it's been a while and I wasn't always around.

I think it's funny that you think theres a clique/cult of worker drones out there just mindlessly rushing to the attack at the behest of our leader... has it occurred to you that maybe a lot of people just feel the same way? If you're referring to who I think you're referring to, there ars too many people on their server for it to be considered a clique anyway. I disagree with them on some things, and I've seen other people voice dissenting opinions without anyone getting attacked for it. The server was also wide open to anyone, as long as they followed the rules, so, again, not a clique by definition. Somehow we haven't had much of an issue over there with pedos/scumbags/what have you. Everyone there is actually super supportive and good company if you just behave respectfully! It really isn't that difficult to just be a decent person who makes an effort to get along with people.

[tma]

Only going to say 3 things

1. To my knowledge chat was lost due to upgrade

2. Chat became for myself and various people that I know, not a positive space.  At least at one point there was a lot of negativity (not talking about people pointing out things with 18+ and U18 or trying to protect other members)- a lot of making fun of others who didn't fit in for various reasons for various things that hurt no one (kink-shaming, weird stories, bad writing, people saying things oddly)  I will not say that I am innocent or that I never joined in- sadly I did sometimes.  But it got to feel like too much for me, and I felt like I was going down a road that I didn't like.  It wasn't **always** like that, but too often for my taste.  There was a point in time (not super duper recent, but definititely closer to now than 2002), where toxic might have been a word that some people might have felt that chat was.

3. Chatting might go on and absolutely be entirely or almost entirely positive and affirming in new spaces.  I could see that being a thing- there are a lot of great people.  Rules are up to owners and I feel that simple rules clearly stated  in order to foster a community ethos need no apologies

 

[bloom]

First off, yeah, the chat room was lost in the forum upgrade, not because of anybody's behavior. All forums that have upgraded to this version of the forum software have lost it, not just us. And, actually, the only behavior I can really recall being active harassment was directed towards me (by Erik/Big Bear, the saga of which is available to anyone who wants to read it in the Snake Pit; I won't hash it out here, because it was awful and I don't want to relive it right this second). People were rude or dismissive to sharks on many occasions and I can remember an incident where everyone jumped on someone for saying "dot-head Indians are terrible people," but I don't personally think that's an unwarranted response to those things. One's mileage may vary, of course. edit: Oh, as tma pointed out, people absolutely did make fun of certain things, but never to peoples' faces. Whether that's better or worse is up for interpretation, but nobody ever went out of their way to make people feel bad about liking things they found weird, to my knowledge. It might be mean spirited, but it's the way people relate to each other, a lot of the time: discussing and interpreting things we see and experience. Also, if anybody had ever objected to what we were doing... we probably would have taken it on board, at least some of the time. Nobody ever did, as far as I recall, though.

I'll touch on the clique accusations here as well. It seems like people love to sling that word around about any group of people that they don't belong to, rather than taking into account that like-minded people just tend to gather and that's how social groups obviously work. The idea that I am somehow in charge of everybody who agrees with me 1) assigns me a lot of power I do not have; I have no real influence on the forum, especially never having been on staff or even considered for staff*, and 2) assumes everybody who agrees with me is a bit of an idiot sheep who can't think for themselves or act without someone else's guidance, which is obviously insulting to them. The other thing is that there have always, literally always, been "cliques" on this website, several of which some of the people clutching their pearls about the "current" clique have been a part of in the past. Like I said, that's how social groups work: in a very large population of people, smaller groups of people who like each other very much and have similar values and interests are naturally going to splinter off and form more tight-knit groups. This is not a "clique," this is normal social behavior and has happened (and been objected to) since the dawn of human society.

(*I'd like to point out that you personally, Vet, as a former member of staff who served as such for several years, have influenced the makeup and tone of the forum in much more significant ways than I ever could as a non staff member. I'm just a loud person that some people agree with on some issues, without any functional power; you're someone who set and implemented at least some of the standards, procedures, and rules that some people have taken issue with. Some of the current tone of the forum is absolutely on you as well.)

Another thing I'd like to touch on is the fact that this place has been "toxic" in similar ways, off and on, since at least when I found it in 2006. One will notice, if they go into the archive of the Snake Pit, that there are no threads in there dating before January of 2012; it's been fully cleared out of topics created before then, which unfortunately handily hides the evidence of any strife in the community of old. But I remember people getting absolutely vicious in Snake Pit battles back then. I don't know why this is always overlooked when people bring up how toxic the forum has become; people were absolutely brutal back then, in a lot of (not all, but many) cases more so than they are now, and it seems like everybody else has just forgotten just how nasty it used to get sometimes for reasons I can't understand. I was fourteen or fifteen and I remember being shocked by it at the time. People who claim "clique" also seem to just miss the good old days where people tended to look the other way after blowups like that (they were deleted pretty rapidly, as I recall) because people cared more about the forum seeming peaceful and avoiding conflict than prioritizing peoples' safety. 

On another note, just throwing it out there, the Sneeze Fetish Forum is a very strange platform for debate anyway. I've personally actually advocated for the deletion of the Snake Pit and the reformation of rules about personal attacks/flaming/bigotry to allow more disagreement outside the Pit, with fewer personal attacks and etc., in order to create a more civil forum environment, but it's never taken and probably never will.

Also, I think it's worth pointing out that almost everybody who's been calling out poor behavior insofar as pedophilia goes is of an age where many of us were, at the very least, taken advantage of, if not outright abused, on this website by the kind of person we've been targeting, and we take that into consideration when we've been strident about pedophiles specifically. We didn't just decide to attack some poor schmucks -- we're speaking from a place of having been taken advantage of or abused by them at a formative age. We weren't protected by the adults who should have been responsible for our well-being, and we don't want the same thing that happened to us to happen to other minors or young adults.

Lastly, 24 people voted for options that indicate that the forum has not grown more toxic (people who think it's the same and people who don't know included, 20 if you don't include people who say they don't know), and 27 people have voted for options that indicate that it has. That's not such a huge gulf, in my opinion.

[Cutelittlenose]

I think this forum has grown a lot more toxic for as long as I've been around as a member. It felt a lot more friendlier when I was lurking years ago.  It's strange to watch it dissolve into a place filled with hatred. The pedophiles can get out and so can the rude people and everyone else messing up the forum, and just make this place friendlier. Safer. 

 

[Anonymouse]

36 minutes ago, Jejune said:

Also, I think it's worth pointing out that almost everybody who's been calling out poor behavior insofar as pedophilia goes is of an age where many of us were, at the very least, taken advantage of, if not outright abused, on this website by the kind of person we've been targeting, and we take that into consideration when we've been strident about pedophiles specifically. We didn't just decide to attack some poor schmucks -- we're speaking from a place of having been taken advantage of or abused by them at a formative age. We weren't protected by the adults who should have been responsible for our well-being, and we don't want the same thing that happened to us to happen to other minors or young adults.

Just needed to amplify this point.

[Vetinari]

4 hours ago, tma said:

1. To my knowledge chat was lost due to upgrade

Apologies. My mistake. But thanks for commenting that it had become toxic in there. I am under the impression some of the staff were glad it had gone as it was becoming problematic.

Of course there's no clique. Just a small group of people who come out with exactly the same opinions fiercely every time anyone steps out of line. Or maybe it's just hard to see a clique from the inside, as one of its former members admitted to me, last time I was here.

[Sitruuna]

I have been considering saying this since the "other topic" was posted but so far I have stayed silent. I guess I finally feel like it's worth mentioning.
If you go take a loot at my posting history (please don't, it's embarrassing lmao) you'll notice that I have disagreed with "the mob" or "the clique" here on several occasions yet here I am, not in a war with the people associated with that group. Now I'm not sure if the others have just forgot that I have in the past argued against banning U18's and against making it mandatory for people to publicly show their ages and what not but personally I like to think that this whole disagreeing yet getting along thing is based on 1) I also respecting other people's opinions, being able to say "hey, I might not know the whole truth", giving other people room and just not assuming my viewpoint is the only correct one or that I'm always correct in general, and 2) having got to know the others so that they, too, know me and where I stand and where I come from. Interaction and life in general is continuous personal growth and sometimes you need to take a step back and look in other direction too than where you yourself stand. I might not see a problem with, say, people roleplaying in mixed age groups because I personally come from a place of no attraction to people behind the characters but if I look further away from my own toes I realise this isn't true for everyone. The same applies to a lot of things.
Now then to the other things...
 

11 hours ago, Jejune said:

2) assumes everybody who agrees with me is a bit of an idiot sheep who can't think for themselves or act without someone else's guidance, which is obviously insulting to them

This is also something I kind of had planned to not say anything about because people will call me think skinned etc but here I go..! This. It pisses me off when people here keep saying or implying that everyone who agrees with Jejune is just following their lead. I am an independent person capable of thinking for myself and expressing my won opinions. If I agreed with people who I actually disagree with just to publicly not agree with the """"clique"""" wouldn't that be the exact thing you all are accusing people of? Discarding my own beliefs and opinions to follow someone else? Sure the hostile environment (yes, I am willing to call it that but doesn't yet mean anything) makes me think of things like "wow, I could never say x on the forum or on my fetish tumblr or anywhere where these people might see it because they would most certainly turn against me if I did!" but the thing is those tend to be things I anyway have absolutely no reason to say... Doesn't keep me from thinking about how I could never say them lmao. Do I sometimes feel like you need to tiptoe around to avoid misunderstandings blowing up into needless drama? Yes. Do I think that necessarily a bad thing? No, not necessarily. While I think sometimes people in general (in general as in on the internet in general) are too quick to judge others and there's little room for misunderstandings and missteps I also think it's good to encourage people to reflect on themselves and to think about things from multiple points of view. Even if the Internet wasn't so ready to explode over one wrong word I think it would be beneficial for us all to ponder things in peace and to do our best to consider things from other people's perspectives before posting something online. And guess what? That's kind of what I've been brought up to think. It's not really something stemming from how the internet now is but rather something rooted in how everyone always emphasised that what ever you post online will be there forever when I was growing up.

 

11 hours ago, Jejune said:

But I remember people getting absolutely vicious in Snake Pit battles back then. I don't know why this is always overlooked when people bring up how toxic the forum has become; people were absolutely brutal back then, in a lot of (not all, but many) cases more so than they are now, and it seems like everybody else has just forgotten just how nasty it used to get sometimes for reasons I can't understand. I was fourteen or fifteen and I remember being shocked by it at the time.

I remember at least some of these as well. But if I'm not mistaken I would maybe say that the tables have somewhat turned. The snake pit drama I remember mostly involves the people who have since been banned flaming others and posting some inappropriate shit here. I remember some threads that essentially served as purges here where someone was being a total shithead and not so surprisingly other people didn't approve. The one occasion that I'm thinking at least ended with the person who was acting like shit getting banned. I know that doesn't represent all of the snake pit drama from the past times but it's the stuff I have the clearest memory of. I do remember this forum had a lot of people who would attack others for what are now considered liberal opinions, and I do remember that I hardly wanted to have anything to do with this side of the forum because certain people made me feel like no matter what I say someone will come and call me an idiot for writing what I write how I write. I think it might be important to remember that back at the time I wasn't all that used to chatting with other people online nor to chatting with other people online in English (as that still isn't my first language) and that definitely made me sound awkward as fuck anyway. I hated it back then and I still hate it when people treat me differently in English speaking places because I'm an ESL speaker but at the same time it doesn't really feel fair to me that an underage (because that's what I was when I got validated here) ESL speaker didn't feel comfortable taking part in a conversation because of how aggressive some people could be. 

But, you know... Clearly I'm just following my ~clique leader~ here since I have recently agreed with Jejune in a few different threads and I quoted them to agree with them and expand on what they said with my own thoughts.

I'm sorry if this is too aggressive to for off topic. I don't think it is and I tried to keep it civil but I know I'm terrible at judging where the line between off topic worthy discussion and snake pit fitting things go.

[Anonymouse]

10 hours ago, Vetinari said:

Of course there's no clique. Just a small group of people who come out with exactly the same opinions fiercely every time anyone steps out of line. Or maybe it's just hard to see a clique from the inside, as one of its former members admitted to me, last time I was here.

And it's just as easy to misinterpret from the outside since you can only assume what we all talk about when we're together. And trust me, it's not deviously plotting to out suspected pedos 24/7. Sure, we talk about it when it comes up, but it's nobody's favorite topic of conversation. It's not like we've made it our mission to hunt these folks down and ruin lives for the hell of it. 

Again, there are over 80 people on Juno's server and we all get along very well... we are also open to having new people join us. Bare minimum criteria is that you need to be a decent person. Doesn't exactly scream clique to me.

[Guest]

My concern is always that, despite the best efforts of the staff, toxicity on SFF is most dangerous when you can't see it. That's problematic because what you ultimately have here on the forum is an opportunity for sharks to prey on vulnerable people.

Usually people join this community specifically for one/both of the following reasons:

1) They want to explore a particular side of themselves and their sexuality, often one which has a self-imposed taboo IRL

2) They want free sneeze porn

Both of which are fine. And obviously many people subsequently do other things on the forum, build friendships, gain self-confidence etc.

The risk is that some people here for 2) will inappropriately capitalise on the curiosity or naivety of others who are here for 1).

Crucially, these sharks don't have to do that in view of the rest of the forum. We have various ways of contacting one another, many of us post links to external sites on which we can be reached, and in the 21st century there's not a lot you can do to really make yourself anonymous.

YouTube comments sections are a great example of toxic behaviour that SFF enables.

Therefore, policies like slowly banning under 18s from the forum make a lot of sense. 

But this toxic behaviour is not limited to creepy old men looking for wavs posted by 16-year-olds. Plenty of 20 or 30 year olds are in a position to be sharked, and lots of teenagers are troubled and express themselves inappropriately. The forum is an ideal breeding ground for this type of thing.

And if mods don't see or hear specific instsnces, they can't do much about it.

[Vetinari]

A question was asked. I gave my reply. And because it wasn't the reply the OP wanted, five different posts have been made to tell me I'm wrong. Perhaps I am, but the poll so far shows that the majority who have responded agree that the toxicity has increased. I'm not going to post in this thread again and I'm going to stop reading certain people's posts as I feel they add negativity to my forum experience. I don't think I'm misreading the situation. I only pop in and out now and I get the impression many others do the same because it just isn't as friendly as it once was. 

Anyone who is denying that they are part of a clique should perhaps examine their responses. If you aren't in one, why would you conclude I thought you were? The self-knowledge is in there somewhere.

[NoV]

In the 8 years I've been a member here, I do feel there has a change in the tolerance for how people express themselves sexually on the forum. In short, people are less likely to put up with people behaving in a way they should not be able to get away with IRL. I feel that when someone used to make a sexually charged comment about an underage sneezer or post video links, obs and stories featuring underage content, there used to be more of a culture of 'well this fetish is pretty edgy and weird and lurks on the periphery, so these are just the people who we are going to attract therefore there's not much we can do.'  

Well times they are a changin'. I know that I am more careful about what I am commenting on and in what way I am commenting than I used to be... and that's a good thing. Yeah there are always going to be arguments about this culture shift, but you know what... you don't have to get involved in them. Generally, I am just here for the sneezing, and avoiding toxic rants is pretty easy to do due to the excellent work of the mods in making sure these threads are locked or moved to the Snake Pit. If you don't want to get involved in the toxicity (or even read it) you really don't have to! The majority of the boards are filled with positive contributions, from people who really just want to enjoy sneezing and give something back. Dodgy behaviour is always going to slip through the cracks, but the robust banning system is used - to my mind - effectively. I do feel that reporting this behaviour in the first instance should be preferable to calling out a member on a public board. Sometimes, what is typed is not always what is meant and investigation is needed. 

Compared to the horrifying toxicity that exists on other (non-SFF) forums, we really don't have it that bad. 

[RediChalyn]

I think it's gotten more toxic here than it was when I joined, but in a much different way.  When I first joined, I was just coming into this fetish and was terribly naive and trusting.  I was taken advantage of, big time, and I'm glad to see that at least on the surface that's not going on as much anymore if at all.  However the issue I have is that politics are becoming a huge deal here, and I admit I've participated in some discussions (in which I was most decidedly of the minority opinion) and honestly I miss how it used to be.  Open forum roleplays (with more people participating, either on a thread or via pm) friendly chat with everyone, and we could all find some form of common ground.  It didn't used to matter what I believe on a personal level, only that we all share at least one thing in common (besides being air breathing, red blooded humans).  Maybe I'm just salty though because the only person who ever made it a point to make me believe that having this fetish wasn't against my core beliefs turned out to be an absolute shark and is just a terrible person all around who wouldn't know the truth if it fell out of the sky landed on his face and started to wiggle.  But I think it's sad...when I first came here it just seemed friendlier so I'm not sure if toxic is the right word but what I'm trying to say is that I used to feel like I could maybe fit in here and now (when my life irl is falling apart) there's just one person MAYBE who's got me. 

[March Hare]

There is kinkshaming going on in this place. Kinkshaming is a dangerous thing, and in this particular online environment, it is also fundamentally hypocritical and unjust.

I find myself distanced from this community for various reasons, not the least of which are strictly personal - i.e. reasons of personal dislike toward certain of our most vocally present members. That's on me. I've learned that sometimes reasoning with people is more about trying to defeat their egos than trying to broaden their perspectives, which is why I have (for the most part, knee-jerk reactions excepted) stopped trying to reason with people I actively dislike.

I can only recommend this course of action. Most heartily, might I add.

Of course, sometimes it is difficult to acknowledge personal dislike, and tempting to try and cloak it in righteous indignation.

But for the love of internet, do not kinkshame each other. There is no good reason conceivable to do so.

[Rook]

5 hours ago, March Hare said:

There is kinkshaming going on in this place. Kinkshaming is a dangerous thing, and in this particular online environment, it is also fundamentally hypocritical and unjust.

I find myself distanced from this community for various reasons, not the least of which are strictly personal - i.e. reasons of personal dislike toward certain of our most vocally present members. That's on me. I've learned that sometimes reasoning with people is more about trying to defeat their egos than trying to broaden their perspectives, which is why I have (for the most part, knee-jerk reactions excepted) stopped trying to reason with people I actively dislike.

I can only recommend this course of action. Most heartily, might I add.

Of course, sometimes it is difficult to acknowledge personal dislike, and tempting to try and cloak it in righteous indignation.

But for the love of internet, do not kinkshame each other. There is no good reason conceivable to do so.

I agree so much

That being said just because you are extremely vocal and you tend to have a popular opinion and or if someone disagrees with you everybody viciously attacks them that does not make you better than the other person and people with the mob mentality makes it seem more toxic I know everyone says oh there's no clique as someone who's been attacked yes there is not only is the discussion between pedophilia is being allowed on here versus not brings stress The Forum but the active fear of being attacked by said Clique it just because you say something different than them also adds so much more to the toxicity Than People realize if anything that's for a good chunk of the toxicity comes from.

[daystar428]

A lot of posts like this one have got me thinking of a recent podcast in listened to about "call out" culture (by Invisibilia). The forum is in some ways very much a close knit group that self polices itself like this podcast case study on the Richmond heavy metal scene which is self policing as well through call outs. Some may not find it relevant but I thought it has some overlaps on what some may or may not see as the toxic atmosphere here. Now back to my somewhat lurkedom after my nerdy share of a podcast... 

[•.*°•☆. Q .☆•°*.•]

i've stepped out of this thread for a bit, but i did want to say that i've noticed that more than one person on the forum have basically said, "anyone who disagrees with me is only disagreeing to sound cool and they're all in cahoots" which just... smells fishy, a little self-absorbed, and maybe a touch paranoid?

it's incredibly easy to dismiss anyone disagreeing with you as mindless cliquey drones bent on chaos and peril, but a great deal harder and more effort-intensive to examine your own motives for having the stances you do on individual case-by-case basis, or god forbid question whether you've made a mistake about something relatively important

[Heathcliff]

On 21/06/2018 at 3:53 AM, Quing Nerd said:

it's incredibly easy to dismiss anyone disagreeing with you as mindless cliquey drones bent on chaos and peril, but a great deal harder and more effort-intensive to examine your own motives for having the stances you do on individual case-by-case basis, or god forbid question whether you've made a mistake about something relatively important

It is, but turn that around- it is easy to dismiss people who YOU (and others) don't like as attacking them as a clique. I'm upset if this stuff did poison chat while it still existed.

If you were in the chat in the past laughing your head off at some other people, but having zero tolerance about other things, perhaps it is indeed good the chat is now pushing up daisies. I can remember the forum having it's share of unpleasantness like 10 years ago- and it has different unpleasentness now. I'm glad to drift off.

So what for younger members? Invest in this place or find their own. I'll be interested to see.

 

[•.*°•☆. Q .☆•°*.•]

i mean yeah, you would have a point, if i was dismissing everyone i don't like. but i'm not? i don't know or remember more than half of the people i've seen do this, so i couldn't possibly dislike all of them. i'd have to hunt across the boards to tell you their usernames. you can't dislike someone u don't even know.

and i'm not dismissing anyone either, btw, i'm asking them to examine why they really choose this hill to die on, rather than just plugging their ears and repeating that everyone who disagrees with them are lying for popularity.

i do disagree with much of what they claim, but rather than dismissing it out of hand just bc it's been said by more than one person, i actually have engaged with their ideas and presented my own arguments against them. 

i know you intended to sound witty and give me the ol' gotcha, heath, but i think this conversation calls more for critical thinking than clever phrase turns.

also, just to touch upon something else you've said: there is a canyon's difference between the pedophilia, pedophilia apologism, stalking/harassment, and having a mean spirited laugh at someone behind their backs. a canyon's difference. you cannot treat these as the same offense, or claim hypocrisy over it.

 

[Heathcliff]

38 minutes ago, Quing Nerd said:

i know you intended to sound witty and give me the ol' gotcha, heath

 

Oh, how well you know me.

I just wish this sort of bitchiness didn't exist here. I guess because I grew up without the internet (until I was 18), I wish chat on the forum and in the old chatroom was more like people sitting round a table and chatting face to face. People would still talk some awful rubbish in that situation, but I wish for a little more politeness and less snarking at others.

[P.S. I know I've done the worst of that while drunk, and I don't defend that.]

[tma]

2 hours ago, Heathcliff said:

 

I just wish this sort of bitchiness didn't exist here. I guess because I grew up without the internet (until I was 18), I wish chat on the forum and in the old chatroom was more like people sitting round a table and chatting face to face. People would still talk some awful rubbish in that situation, but I wish for a little more politeness and less snarking at others.

Agreed.  And it wasn't *always* less than positive in chat, even when some did feel that things were "toxic".  Just that negative attitude *seemed* to be more prevalent.

 

That is my thing.  And I am not talking about the whole u18/18+ stuff.  I know that 98% or more of posters in here are taking "toxic" to have to do with that.  And if that IS *only* what we are talking about, then probably things have most definitely made forward progress.  If we are talking about wider definitions, it can very much depend on perspective

It shouldn't be a "one is worse than the other" thing either.  Yes, pedophilia IS worse, but people can still feel not good about what they perceive (from their p.o.v.) as negative.  We can work towards helping BOTH things.

 

[haruherohirahara]

So I first started lurking here around 2011, got an account in 2013 and I can definitely tell you that YES it has become insanely toxic in this place, like I can't even believe it. I actually made a topic on this subject in the Snake Pit last summer--which a bunch of admins dogpiled on and tried to denounce because they think I'm a racist and transphobe despite not even having proof of either claim. Pretty much all they can do is silence, but the truth always manages to leak out.

Really, this forum is honestly more time than Sneezblr, though this place could still use some help. Like you wouldn't believe how bad it can get on the Tumblr fetish community; just look up Mathbroom if you want proof that stupidity can cause an aneurysm.

[•.*°•☆. Q .☆•°*.•]

20 hours ago, Lessonlearned said:

a bunch of admins dogpiled on and tried to denounce because they think I'm a racist and transphobe despite not even having proof of either claim

so why do they think this? i know staff doesn't just decide someone is bigotted out of the blue, there had to be some reason. could you illuminate it for me please?