Creeps and idiots!!

[Chanel_no5]

I think the issue is about random people suddenly being identifiable. Whatever we think about either of those subforums, in obs people aren't shown with their faces and easy access to contact information (such as social media). That is banned for privacy reasons. If I found a post on a forum for another weird fetish with them talking about someone who is clearly me in some random public location, obviously it would be weird and uncomfortable. If they posted photos or VIDEO of me unwittingly catering to their fetish, along with my social media, and came over in droves to demand more as a result, that is a different thing and it could be scary as hell. 

And before anyone calls me out on that, I've had my real person-fics about famous people removed already. Though personally I do think there is a difference between celebrities known by the general public and a random college girl who just wanted to play video games in front of a camera. But I thought about what it would feel like to accidentally stumble on that, and I felt bad. It's not an easy thing to admit to yourself that you have crossed lines when you truly mean no harm to anyone, just creating entertainment for yourself and others, but yeah. I don't know. 

Anyway, those are my opinions and I doubt that will change anyone else's, and since discussions about these issues tend to get very heated with personal attacks, and I'm not in a good headspace to deal right now, I'm gonna be off for a bit. ☺️

[Chiguy]

First off, what type of content do we allow is decided by the site owners. Those who pay, say.

But, I suggest those of you who want to dictate what others can see, do more than learn to "live and let live." This is a sexual fetish site. There’s lots of content here that turns me off. Fan fics, male sneezing, male on male sex, excessive snot. I simply don’t look at it. And I don’t just “tolerate” that you like it … I’m glad you have this space to find it.

The more kinds of members we have, and the more kinds of content, the more vibrant the site. Like a big city, it makes for a more interesting and experimental place. Sometimes people who post things I’m generally not into, post something I am into. That’s the benefit of a broad community.

If we ban content like video links or fan fics or AI art or rapid sneezes or red-headed sneezes, within a month, someone will create a site catering to it. A significant number of members will go there. This will be a much less interesting place.

What we should stop is the posting of any illegal content on this site, and trolling or predatory comments by members. We’re not perfect, but this site is generally fun and safe.

So, my suggestion is to love the big tent. And recognize that the smaller the tent gets, the more likely you are to find yourself outside it.

Edited June 6, 2023 by Chiguy

[poiub]

2 hours ago, Chiguy said:

Fan fics, male sneezing, homosexuality, excessive snot... ...video links or fan fics or AI art or rapid sneezes or red-headed sneezes

No-one's suggested any of this be banned. The only thing being discussed is posting content without the consent of the people in it.

[Chiguy]

59 minutes ago, poiub said:

No-one's suggested any of this be banned. The only thing being discussed is posting content without the consent of the people in it.

Which is the slippery slope to banning any kind of content.

You're wrong no one has suggested banning some of my examples. There are those who want AI art banned. That discussion was hotter than this one. If we ban AI art, why not AI stories? 

No content without the consent of the person in it? What about obs? Going to get the consent of that person? 

Fan fics? Going to get Julia Roberts consent? Or the actor who plays the character you want to write about? 

Where does that stop? 

That's about 80% of the most viewed content on this site.

Again, my suggestion is to love the big tent. And recognize that the smaller the tent gets, the more likely you are to find yourself outside it.

(Again, let's be clear ... no videos are posted on this site. Only links to them on third party sites)

Edited June 6, 2023 by Chiguy

[Blah!?]

Plainly making up stuff that nobody in this thread has even been talking about, let alone actually suggesting, isn't particularly conducive to discussion and is frankly pretty disingenuous. The answer to "where does it stop?" is always "somewhere."

[Agaba]

On my part, I'll say that there's nothing wrong, per se, about sharing here the clips and stuff. Being discreet about it is the key. 

People being creeps it's what's wrong. It's not that hard to figure out that the person is not aware/not making explicit content, so you have no business asking, let alone DEMANDING content from them. I don't think that people like being sexualized on their daily life by doing, let's be honest, a normal thing such as sneezing. 

Also, if you want porn, pay for it. You're not entitled to anything. 

[Chiguy]

2 hours ago, Blah!? said:

Plainly making up stuff that nobody in this thread has even been talking about, let alone actually suggesting, isn't particularly conducive to discussion and is frankly pretty disingenuous. The answer to "where does it stop?" is always "somewhere."

What's made up?

There's a group that wants AI art banned. Do you agree? Why or why not? 

If you want to ban content without the consent of the person in it, why wouldn't consent be needed for observations? What's the difference? 

What about fan fics?

If it makes you uncomfortable, perhaps you need to explore the reasons for your discomfort rather than snorting "disingenuous." 

The precedent it sets is clear. So where does it stop?

"Somewhere" isn't a good enough answer. 

[Blah!?]

13 minutes ago, Chiguy said:

There's a group that wants AI art banned. Do you agree? Why or why not? 

There are people who want AI art banned, and that's basically the only part of your list that people have actually discussed. However it has nothing to do with whether or no we link to random candid videos of non-fetishists sneezing. Likewise my opinion on it is also irrelevant to the topic at hand.

17 minutes ago, Chiguy said:

If you want to ban content without the consent of the person in it, why wouldn't consent be needed for observations? What's the difference? 

The difference is observations don't directly link to the person in question unless the person posting it decides to be a creep and give their actual info. In the case of the average observation posted here, most likely even the poster wouldn't be able to actually track down the person they saw again even if they wanted to. The topic of secretly recording or taking pictures of people sneezing in real life has come up from time to time before, and it's widely been agreed to be completely disgusting behavior. Heck, odds are a good chunk of the obs posted on this site are just completely made up, and the average user has no way of telling the difference.

20 minutes ago, Chiguy said:

What about fan fics?

Who is asking that we ban fanfics?

24 minutes ago, Chiguy said:

The precedent it sets is clear. So where does it stop?

If the powers that be decided to ban linking to videos of non-fetishists, it would just... Stop there? Unless you wanna keep making stuff up or whatever. If you can't tell the difference between what's actually being talked about here and a bunch of hypothetical situations that you apparently assume must also happen, I don't know what to tell you.

[SleepingPhlox]

7 minutes ago, Chiguy said:

What's the difference? 

Posting links to specific Twitch streamers points people to very specific places interact with very real human beings, who might be blissfully unaware that because they sneezed on camera once, a bunch of people just might make creepy comments at them.

Posting an observation about your cute blonde neighbour who sneezes 20 times every evening does not direct people to be able to locate a specific human being. She has no name, she has no address, she has no contact information, nobody can rock up to her front door and ask her how her nose blows sound.

Doesn't matter what you think about the issue one way or another, there is a clear difference.

Genuinely nobody wwants to ban stuff just because we don't like a certain topic, it's about the ethics of continuing on doing things the same old way even though the landscape of how media is created, controlled, and consumed has changed. And, people should discuss that because maybe our ideas about what's ethical were formed before "Tik Tok Star" was ever considered a thing, and maybe that means we need to look at how we do things.  Maybe it doesn't.  Maybe a Tik Tok star should be treated the exact same as a movie star, maybe they shouldn't. Maybe a small time streamer with 50 followers should be treated the same as a TV star, maybe they shouldn't.  I don't know the answer. But it's a conversation we should have.

And come on, man.  The Slippery Slope Fallacy is called that for a reason.

[Chiguy]

6 minutes ago, Blah!? said:

However it has nothing to do with whether or no we link to random candid videos of non-fetishists sneezing. Likewise my opinion on it is also irrelevant to the topic at hand.

In other words, as along as you don't care, it's irrelevant. Fact is, there are people who feel just as passionately about that as you do about this. Once we start the bans, everyone's got an issue. 

7 minutes ago, Blah!? said:

The difference is observations don't directly link to the person in question unless the person posting it decides to be a creep and give their actual info.

So far, the stated principle by those who want to ban video links is "consent." If consent is the issue, it doesn't matter whether the subject can be tracked down or not, or there is a link to the person, the post doesn't have their consent, and it should come down. Since that can't be policed, that means obs are out.

The other "principle" you're sort of asserting is that it makes you feel icky to read those comments. Everyone here agrees with you. But those comments will appear on You Tube, Twitch, Facebook and Tik Tok regardless of whether the links are posted here. The vast majority from this site don't make gross comments. But a minority do and will continue to do so regardless of whether we ban links.

19 minutes ago, Blah!? said:

f the powers that be decided to ban linking to videos of non-fetishists, it would just... Stop there? Unless you wanna keep making stuff up or whatever. If you can't tell the difference between what's actually being talked about here and a bunch of hypothetical situations that you apparently assume must also happen, I don't know what to tell you

In the long history of censorship, not knowing when to stop has always been a big problem.

[Chiguy]

12 minutes ago, SleepingPhlox said:

Posting an observation about your cute blonde neighbour who sneezes 20 times every evening does not direct people to be able to locate a specific human being. She has no name, she has no address, she has no contact information, nobody can rock up to her front door and ask her how her nose blows sound.

Doesn't matter what you think about the issue one way or another, there is a clear difference.

If the issue is consent, there is no difference.

If the issue is creeps finding the content, creeps will find the content and comment. And clip it on You Tube. And do 50 other things with it you don't like. Banning links here won't stop it.

17 minutes ago, SleepingPhlox said:

And come on, man.  The Slippery Slope Fallacy is called that for a reason.

When there are various steps to the get to the final argument, it's a slippery slope fallacy.

When the application of the principle is direct -- as it is here -- in law, it's called precedent.

[Mr_G]

We all know it happens, we all know we can't do anything about it.

You all know what can and can't be posted/linked to, and most of you know how to behave properly on other sites.

End of discussion.