Love/Hate Relationship

[Vetinari]

Incidentally if you want to talk about the weather you can do so in "Off-topic" if you can access that. Also comings and goings can be a lot of fun. There are some members who come here mainly to socialise in a fairly non-fetishy way. Feel free to join in anytime......we don't bite honest!

[Guest]

Good! I'm glad you're up for this.

I know what you mean about not wanting to tell her how you feel now about her sneezing, because how do you tell someone who really cares about you they're unknowingly making you miserable? This is the one thing that keeps me from telling my bf all that I've told you, because I know, consciously or unconsciously, he'd try to stop sneezing in front of me just so he wouldn't put me through it. And that would be the last thing I'd want. He shouldn't have to adjust anything for me, you know? Plus If I ever noticed him doing it I'd feel so guilty. Kinda leaves us stuck between a rock and a hard place with this, doesn't it? Want to talk about it with someone you trust and who you think would understand, but that person gaining this knowledge might only throw in more complications. If I ever find away around this rock I'll let you know, and believe me, I'm trying.

Now, onward with the questions and answers.

A2. If you'd have asked me before last year if I would have ever told anyone/admitted to having this fetish I would have told you this secret was coming with me into the grave. And I thoroughly planned on that because in day to day life, hearing other people sneeze didn't get me turned on. I liked being blessed, and I enjoyed blessing other people, but beyond that...nothing. Then I had my first real boyfriend and suddenly it wasn't so benign. It became enough of a thing for me and I wanted so much to trust someone with it, that one night I just broke down and told him. Ha, and when I say "broke down" I mean BROKE DOWN. I don't know how he discerned what I was even saying. Actually, now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure I tried to make him guess. Because I remember telling him that it had something to do with a comment I'd made to him before about finding it hot to care for a guy who's exhibiting a state of weakness. So I led him to sick, and then something you do when you're sick...and I think he guessed cough first and I told him, no, the other thing. And I remember this part because he said "Oh! You me sn-" and I tackled him. I put my hand over his mouth and pushed him back on the bed and the proceeded to burry my head in some covers and chant "don't say it don't say it don't say it" over and over again. I think at that point he was almost laughing because of how ridiculous I was being, but honestly, I'd never spoken it before and I certainly didn't want him to be the one to stamp me verbally with the truth. Needless to say he managed to say it eventually and proceeded to hug me and tell me all of the reasons that it wasn't that strange and I shouldn't be so upset about it. I of course then tried to justify it, to him and myself, about how it turns me on, and how I think I might have gotten attached to it and he just listened and said that that made sense. Then he actually launched into a mini discussion about people who stifle their sneezes and how they drive him crazy. That shocked me because if there's anything I've fervently avoided my whole life, it's having a discussion about the "s"-word and having to say it multiple times within. But it actually made me feel easier with it because if he wasnt scared to talk about it, maybe I shouldn't be. After that I think I eventually calmed down and we just went to bed.

So that's how that craziness went down.

Now to more specifically answer the first part of your question, he's the only one I've ever told. Considered the best friend, but my bf's enough of a best friend in that he really doesn't filter his knowledge about my fetish into our sexual relationship, so I haven't felt the need. The only time it's ever brought up is he'll tease me every now and then, whereupon I still throttle him because it makes me so uncomfortable, or he'll just let me talk for a bit and then resume trying to convince me it's something I should enjoy.

Q3. If you had to try to justify what you liked so much about sneezing, what would you say?

All the best,

-LG

[Having Trouble]

Hey LG -

I can totally imagine that coming out scenario! It makes so much sense to me, for so many reasons. In the life that is real - which is to say, not on these boards - I can't even say the word "s - ." Honestly can't. It's a little ridiculous, actually. I couldn't believe when I typed it for the first time. It's still kind of weird and hard for me.

Anyway a bunch has transpired in the past several days, but I'll keep it short for this post. The drama isn't going anywhere.

So okay, A3.

This one is a little bit complicated. I guess because I don't really know. I mean, I'm not sure. I hear what everyone has to say about maybe finding that moment of weakness, or vulnerability before a sneeze attractive. And I don't disagree with that, but I don't think that's what it is for me. I mean maybe that's a part of it. Okay, that's a part of it for sure I think.

But maybe also for me it has to do with inevitability. A shift in the norm wherein we have control over stuff. And so also that loss of control, too. And also I'm pretty sure it has to do with sound. For as long as I can remember I've had this thing for sounds. How relaxing, or subtle, or pleasurable certain sounds can be. And the sound of a sneeze is so amazingly beautiful. And surreal, almost. In all of it's forms and variations.

I hope that makes sense! Guess it wasn't as hard as I thought it might be. I'm sure I can delve even further into my psyche here, but I promised to keep it short.

And now onto Q4.

Do you think we have control over the way our SO's sneezes affect us? Like do you think we are actually attracted to their sneezing, but we won't let ourselves feel it when they do because it's too intrusive in some way? Or better yet - what other psychological "stuff" do you feel is wrapped up inside of your feeling so awful whenever your BF sneezes?

(I can try to respond to this too as it might actually be useful for us, right? So if you want to ask the question back at me you totally can.)

All the best back at you, LG.

HT

[Guest]

A4

Hmmm… tricky. And right to the heart of the matter too. Truthfully, were this boy not my bf, him sneezing wouldn’t do anything for me. As strange as it is for me to admit, there are some sounds I like better than others and his is really not one of them. Now that I think about it, I wonder if there isn’t some correlation between this problem and becoming sexually active for me. Sneezing never bothered me before, I was embarrassed about it, but it never tore me up inside until it began to be associated with a person with whom I have a sexual relationship. It just suddenly isn’t so innocent when he does it because now it’s alive in a whole different context for me. One in which my attraction to the fetish becomes a significant part of thinking about him sexually. That’s when the problem began. Because it suddenly isn’t just my thing to deal with, my enjoyment of it is projected onto him now too.

(Ok that was random and I’m not sure how it related. I’m just talking to see if something useful will come out.)

As to what psychological stuff is wrapped up in all this…I only have guesses. I’ll try to remember, but the last time he sneezed in front of me, we were at dinner and these are some of the first thoughts I think I had in those few seconds while I was in the most terrible state of discomfort.

Oh God. Ok, Bless him first, now move on. Move on! Keep talking. Act like you didn’t notice that. Is he wondering if I noticed that? Is he waiting for me to react? Stop thinking about it! Stop picturing it! We’re at DINNER for God’s sake! I don’t think I paused, I’m pretty sure I played it off cool. What if he’s still wondering about me thinking about it?…please don’t let him still be wondering if I’m thinking about it. But I AM still thinking about it! Even though I don’t WANT to be thinking about it. This is NOT the time to be memorizing exactly what just happened. Just eat your soup damnit and MOVE ON!

(and see this is where I want to know what happens to you because your current GF doesn’t know about it, correct? So are your worries different ones, just causing you the same panic?)

So now, analyzing myself as we go along here, I guess a big part of what bothers me is that there is a time and place for sexual stuff and I’d prefer it if it were left to those times and places. I don’t like being turned on in the middle of dinner. I don’t like thinking about him thinking he might have just randomly turned me on in the middle of dinner. I just want to eat the stupid dinner! Perhaps this is such a big deal for me personally because any sexual act is still a huge deal for me. I come from a good little Catholic girl background and I’ve had a hard enough time letting sexual acts that are associated with actual sexual organs turn me on without feeling guilty, that this on top of it just drives me up the wall. It’s not something I have any interest in dealing with right now. I want to be able to have sexual stuff just be sexual stuff sometimes and sneezing just be a bodily function. But the fact that there’s a blurred line and I don’t get to choose when I’m ready bring these two worlds together (i.e. indulge in the fetish with my SO with some kind of sexual undertone) just aggravates me to no end. So I guess every time he sneezes I feel that lack of control or separation in myself.

Wow, good question to ask. I think I may have figured a little something out for myself there.

Q 5 for you.

Along the same line, what are your first thoughts, as close as you can get them, when your GF sneezes around you? And if you want, what do you think is behind them?

Have a great weekend!

-LG

[Having Trouble]

Hey LG –

Great answer and great question. This one is definitely going to require my being honest and going deep. I'm so glad that we're doing this.

(Sorry it's taking me a few days to post. I had a busy weekend and wanted to give the proper time to a response.)

I've been thinking about it though and just thinking about it is bringing up so much, and bringing so much to my attention. I'm looking forward to writing through it all in my response to you once I have a second, hopefully later on today!

I hope you had a great weekend, LG.

HT

[Having Trouble]

Hey LG,

I'm back and ready to write this time.

So I'm going to be as honest as I can here, though it might wind up a little confusing because this is all a very stripped down glance into my head. And I think a lot of it might be kind of embarrassing. But oh well I guess that's the point of this.

So for starters my first thought in response to this question is, "I'm completely insane." I mean I know that sounds dramatic, it just makes a ton of sense that you wind up feeling a little exposed when your bf sneezes, since he does know about the fetish. I feel like, "Okay that's a really normal reason to feel shut down and stuff." And I think my reasoning is way less normal.

Because you're right, my gf doesn't know. So I think that my reaction to her sneezing, or rather being able to sneeze, is wrapped up in quite a few things. I'm not sure that I have feelings that can be translated into words, but I'll do my best at explaining what I think is going on here.

First I should mention that I am entirely unable to sneeze in front of her. Entirely unable. We've been together for some time and she has never, not once, seen me sneeze. I've actually had to fake a couple of times because I was about to sneeze but then of course it just went away and I didn't want to look stupid. It's really an awful thing for me. I would love to be human and vulnerable in this way in front of her. And yes I find sneezing sexy and beautiful. So all of this I think has a lot to do with everything.

So okay my gf sneezes and here's what happens -

*I'm immediately weakened. I think because deep down I'm probably turned on and yes, it's the middle of the day or when we're out to eat or whenever that is not a time for us to turn one another on, and so it's not appropriate and I try not to let myself feel it. This sounds like - "Oh my goodness, okay stay calm. Stay in control. Just bless her normally and show no emotion and stop thinking about her sneeze, and hearing it and visualizing it and GET OVER IT and move on. Everything is normal. You're not feeling anything at all right now except normal. You heart did not skip a beat and you are not turned on or concerned."

*Then I feel concern. Deep concern that it's going to happen again, or she's getting sick or something and so that weakness I'm feeling now will happen over and over. All day or for several days or for some indefinite amount of time. This sounds like - "Is she getting sick? What's going on? Is she allergic to something?" Etc.

*Then feel jealousy. I hate to say that, but it's true. Deep seeded jealousy in a very real way. This sounds like this - "Why is it so easy for her to sneeze? She's vulnerable to something right now and it's sexy and it's human and it's not me. And I can't ever be in that same position with her. She never says 'bless you' and witnesses me vulnerable to something." And I want that so bad. I want so badly to be able to sneeze in front of her. I know it sounds crazy but I just think it would really solve a lot of this for me. Then we could share in that and her sneezing wouldn't make me feel so alienated. So not vulnerable and not real. Then I could experience that other role, and that kind of power every once and a while.

*And then I get upset. I get angry almost that she's so vulnerable and I wish with all of myself that she wasn't. I wish that she was less vulnerable, and less suseptable and that she never sneezed.

Of course I don't, really. Because I like that she's vulnerable and real. And the irony is that I'm the one who winds up feeling entirely vulnerable in all of this. Vulnerable in a way she can never understand or know. And so maybe that's really what it feels like then ultimately. When my gf sneezes I feel profoundly vulnerable because, well because of all this.

Okay, wow. Writing this has been really helpful for me but I hope it doesn't sound totally insane.

Next question? I feel almost unable to come up with one now, probably because all of this felt so big to say. Do you have one for me? Or I can think about it for a second and come up with one.

Thanks for listening, LG. I really mean that.

HT

[Guest]

I am so ridiculously thankful that you found me on here. I don't think two people could understand each other more about something so seemingly bizarre. But we can't be insane because how rare would it be that our insanity is so completely logical to someone else? (And also thanks for getting up the courage to talk so openly about this. It's easier to open up to someone who you know isn't out to judge you, but is trying just as hard to figure themselves out as you are. )

I know I haven't mentioned jealousy before, and it isn't one of the first things that comes up for me when he sneezes, but it's in the back of my mind a lot of the time. Honestly I'm kind of a 'blessing whore'. I love to bless the people I care about and truthfully I enjoy being blessed myself. Especially being blessed by someone I like, it just makes me feel good. But just like you, i CANNOT sneeze in front of him. I've given up ever hoping for the natural and now if I was going to sneeze, but couldn't because he was there, I'll try to go into some other room where he can't see me and induce the damn thing out. Normally I would never induce in public but because it was going to happen naturally but didn't, I feel cheated and more justified in my right to fix it. Haha, now who's crazy? But anyway, that has only ever worked one time and he heard just enough of it to ask and bless me, and let me tell you. I love that moment. I've filed it away in some sweet and sensitive file in the back of my mind. But what can I say? I'm greedy. Had it happen once about a year and a half ago and that's just not enough for me. Truthfully I think if I ever manage it, it'll be when I'm drunk. Because even inducing when I know he can hear me scares it away. (In some odd way I think I'm scared how I'll sound. That sneezing is attractive to me (and I know I have sound preferences, so ideally I'd like to sound attractive) but what if I finally manage to sneeze in front of him and it's one of those rogue ones that comes out crazy and makes people stare at you to wonder what the hell just happened?) But back to my point, I know what you mean about wanting to be one equal ground. They get to do it, and to share in it would feel more like the pleasent give and take between couples. But we're inhibited so we can't partake. It's crazy. We're crazy. But it's ok because at least we're not as alone as we'd thought, right?

As for the continuing questions, I'll give you some time to think up the next one because I also am out of ideas.

your kindred spirit of the fetish world,

LG

[Having Trouble]

LG,

I can't stop laughing - not because anything we've said is particularly funny - but because we are absolutely kindred spirits of the fetish world. And honestly it's just the most awesome thing to happen ever.

I too am so ridiculously thankful that I found you here.

Now are you ready for this one? I INDUCE TO JUSTIFY THE LOST SNEEZE, TOO! In the SAME EXACT way! So much for, "now who's crazy!" I would explain what I do and the psychology of it, but you've just explained it WORD for WORD. It's like, "I was going to sneeze, and I am so not being robbed of this."

I've actually been trying to stop doing it because I thought maybe it was making all of this harder in some way. The fact that I had to fake it, and in another room nonetheless. You know? I want to sneeze in front of her! And for real this time! But it's really hard because that feeling of being robbed the opportunity is an awful, awful thing.

So much more to say but I'm floored and thankful and a million other things right now. I'll think on our next question LG, and I hope you have a wonderful night!

HT

[Guest]

I think what this all boils down to really, is that we are the same person. We have just been talking to ourselves this whole time. There's no other way to explain it.

But as to trying to stop inducing, see I've been leaning on it more. Because in my mind, just him hearing me sneeze gets me one step closer. And then if I can begin to get over my fear of how I'll sound, I might even be able to tell my brain and fears to just "screw it" and I'd be able to sneeze in front of him eventually. Like I said, I can't really even successfully induce yet when he's nearby, but I KNOW i'll never be able to do it naturally if I can't even do it when I intend to. So, for me personally, it makes me feel a little bit better because the more comfortable I get with sneezing in public, (which I don't know if I've mentioned, but it's not just my bf I can't sneeze in front of. I have a hard time doing it in front of anyone.) even if it isn't as real as I'd like it to be, at least it's the same action and if I can do that, then hopefully when it happens naturally I won't panic as much. I don't know. The logic of it works out somehow in my warped mind. But truthfully, I may never know if it's a good theory or not because if I can't even manage to gather up enough courage to sneeze when I know I'm going to do it, and from another room no less, I'll never be able to find out.

Lookin' forward to your next question.

Take care,

LG

[Having Trouble]

Hey LG,

Well are we the same person? Oh no! I guess it's possible, considering. I certainly hope not though, as I'm entirely grateful for your being who you are. And I absolutely promise that I'M ME, if you promise that you're you. And I will, of course, take your word for it!

As far as inducing, I completely understand where you're coming from and support you in full. That inability to sneeze in front of ANYONE including my gf is what provoked me to start, too. (Unless I'm anonymous to a situation I'm entirely unable to sneeze in front of anyone as well. Ugh.) So I actually began inducing in another room to overcome that same fear of how I'd sound, and then I moved up to inducing in another room and trying to - you know - walk out of the room and into wherever my gf was so I could attempt it in front of her - (rarely works, if ever. Ugh.) But I definitely think it was actually really helpful for me as a tool to get over those fears. Embarrassingly enough, I kind of just started doing it a little too often. And since I felt over the "sound" factor, I started really wanting to be able to for real. (Which is not to say I still don't do it sometimes! Yikes! It's okay.)

Moving along, I think I've come up with another question! Hope it's a good one.

Q6. If you could "re-program" yourself to get rid of the fetish - so you would no longer find yourself turned on by sneezes at all, but you could also loose all of this baggage that we've been trying to explore in regards to sneezing and our SO's - would you do it? And I bet it isn't an easy yes or no answer, so any thoughts surrounding the question are totally welcome too.

Hope you're having a great day!

HT

[Guest]

Hey HT,

This'll be the last time I can't post for a few days. Going out of town with the bf. And I'm praying that I don't have anything horrible to vent when I get back. Please keep him healthy! Please, PLEASE! 3 solid days with him and I bet it happens at least once. But I'm not worried, it's cool. I'm not gonna think about it cause maybe it won't happen. Haha, neurosis aside... To answer Q 6.

A 6.

This answer actually came to me easier than I thought. Yes. I would get rid of it. The pros haven't outweighed the cons for me yet. The only enjoyment I've ever been able to get out of this fetish is that as far as I'm aware, I've yet to find anything else that when I just think about it, I get turned on without having to do anything. So in the realm of private personal enjoyment it's been a bit of an aid I suppose. But although it's served me well, I don't feel so attched to it that I woulnd't be perfectly alright if it was something else that turned me on. I know you mentioned in one of your first posts I think, that you found this community at about my age and enjoyed it for a while at first. (Correct me if I'm not remembering right.) I think I skipped that step. I went straight from figuring out my feelings about sneezing had sexual connections to launching right into these problems with that connection. So right now I'd say take it away from me. But since I doubt that's possible (outside of maybe some radical therapy) part of me wants to accept this unique thing I've been thrown and to fall in love with it like so many others have on here. Or actually I really just want to bash my head against a wall (or find this little guy with the hammer here) but that seems even less productive in the long run unless it serves to give me amnesia). Sorry... I'm being rather brutal tonight, aren't I? ...It's just... this trip is going to be rough. It's my last few days with him before he moves away and the fact that this is even on my mind just makes me want a lobotomy.

Hope you're doing alright Trouble. Sorry for being kind of a crappy downer in my answer. But you know how it is. (See? It's nice to be able to say that. ) Have a good weekend and I'll be looking forward to talking some more when I get back.

Q 7

Your question right back at you. (Muahaha! And I promise I'm not being lazy, I'm just wondering if we'd have different responces and what your reasoning behind yours would be.)

Proof that misery loves company,

LG

[Having Trouble]

Hey Lost,

It's Monday afternoon and I hope you're having a wonderful, stress-free last weekend with your boy! Whatever you two are doing I hope you're enjoying yourself and his company, because of course you both deserve that in a big way.

I've been thinking about you and all of this that we've been going through and life. It's been the opposite of stress-free here, I'll save the details, but let's just say "Having Trouble" is having trouble. With all of this. With attempting normalcy inside of illogicaltown.

You weren't being brutal in your response at all, trust me. I totally get it. I get the fears and how difficult they are to manage and why they come up. I get being smart, and thoughtful, and caring and yet - prey to this ridiculously powerful negative thing. I get that it's rough. It's really, really rough.

It's rough to feel like, I can analyze and uncover and come to terms with so much of whatever psychology and emotion is involved here - but it doesn't seem like anything is changing. As far as dealing with how the fetish manifests in my relationship and with my gf, I swear it's just getting worse.

I'm sorry, Lost. I don't mean to be a downer. I'm just having a terrible weekend with all of this. And it really does just make me feel unbelievably stuck. And crazier than crazy.

Anyway I'm with you on the lobotomy. I consider myself a rational, progressive minded person otherwise. But all of this stuff, whatever happens to me when my gf sneezes and all of that, I just don't want it anymore. Lobotomize me. I have way too much to do, and way too much care to give without all of this getting in the way.

(But I mean, of course I don't really want a lobotomy.)

And so in conclusion, my answer to this question is YES. Absolutely, positively - yes. I would swap this fetish out before you could say, "no backsies," for just about anything at all. I would swap it out for having to wear a scarlet letter indicating that I'd once been a sexual deviate. I would swap it out for irritable bowel syndrome.

Similarly I think that I'd also go to extremes to try to free myself of whatever is happening here psychologically. You're right - were I to be planning for a life alone, this fetish would come in handy for pleasure. But that's not my plan. And I just happen to be in love here. And so instead I just feel like this fetish is going to cause me to lose all of the people that I care about. And cause me to be reckless or foolish with that love.

And well, okay. I hope all of this makes sense. I apologize again for being so overwhelmed with all of this today. It's incredibly helpful to write and of course - thanks for listening, Lost.

HT

[chui]

wow. I've been following this thread for some time now, but haven't replied, as it seems like you two have gotten along rather well. But this breaks my heart, to see just how tormented you both seem with the fetish. I wish there was something I could say or do that would make it all better for you both, that would make it possible for you to accept, and even embrace the fetish. But I dont have any magic words, or magic wands. All I can say is, I'm so glad that you two have each other to turn to, as you seem so very comfortable and empathetic.

[Having Trouble]

Hi Chui -

Thanks so much. I mean that. It's so helpful to have the understanding and the support.

I was actually wondering earlier today if anyone was still reading this thread! (I'd posted a blanket apology for being such a downer in that last post, but then erased it - convinced Lost and I were the only ones still engaged in our own dilemma!)

But so again, thank you. It has been incredibly helpful to have this thread, and to know that you're all out there - able to enjoy and find contentment in relationships and in life with this fetish - well that's just a wonderful comfort.

HT

[chui]

We're always here if you need us. Not everyone may have the same exact problems, but you might find people who have been where you are. And thats what we can hope, that you will find encouragement and support.

[Guest]

Finally back! I read your post on Monday Trouble and wanted so much to respond but I didn't have the time and then when I got back to my apartment Tues. my internet was out. But thankfully that's fixed so I can tell you how much I just want to hug you right now. Perhaps you're not a huggy person and find that creepy, but in my imaginary world, I hug you as tight as I can and then you in turn let me cry on your shoulder.

This is ridiculous. I'm right with you as always. I think we're being very smart in the way we're attempting to break things down, but it's not helping in any way shape or form. And I'm so sorry you had a terrible weekend with it... I wish I could be there for you more somehow. (Outside of sending you mental hugs.) And I also wish I could offer some hope instead of jumping on the downward spiral with you, but I've heard it said somewhere that honesty's the best policy, and to be honest...I'm so close to losing it too it's not even funny. He sneezed 2 times on Sun. and the first time...it took me about an hour to recover. An hour of being oddly silent, arguing with myself in my head, wanting to run out into the middle of the road, and struggling not to burst into tears. And that was only to recover enough to pretend to be normal. It still bothered me for long after that. I'm seriously considering hunting down a therapist and begging them to condition this out of me. In Human Sexuality last year I remember our professor talking about how people who had more dangerous sexual behaviors would be sent to psychologists who would somehow stimulate them to feel nauseous whenever they had perverted thoughts, until eventually they didn't desire to have those thoughts anymore. And while I can't express how sad it makes me feel to think of sneezing becoming something that makes me want to puke (because I hate being sick to my stomach about as much as I hate having this problem)...I don't know what else to do. Why can't we turn this off? Where's the damn button hiding?! I swear...

The only other thing I can think of doing that I haven't done, which normally helps me solve my problems, is talking to him about it. But I'm sure you'll agree that telling our SO's is just about the most terrifying thought ever. Some part of me feels like their ability to understand what's tormenting us is important, but the other part doesn't want him to have this knowledge at all. I already feel 10X more awkward about all this because he knows it turns me on so I can't imagine how I'd feel if he knew it upset me. He'd probably feel guilty for sneezing at all, which would in turn make me feel terrible because he shouldn't have these negative connotations with a random bodily function. That's my bed of nails, not his. Ha, I'm starting to feel like a dog chasing his tail in circles. We've been through all this already haven't we? So the question is, what else is there? Short of paying someone to help us, what else can we do to help ourselves? What lets everyone else see it as a gift when their SO sneezes in front of them, and us as a disaster? I wish I had some answers for you instead of just more questions. But I at least wanted you to know I'm still here for you. Even if it's just to have someone to ramble or rant to while everything goes to hell. And I'll keep trying to think of new things we could try, or new ways to think of all this that might help. Take care HT.

Hoping for the best,

LG

[Having Trouble]

Lost,

You're the best ever.

I am definitely a huggy person, and when I got your post last night that hug you sent through time and space was exactly what I needed. Exactly. So thank you so, so, so, so much.

You may absolutely cry on my shoulder any day of the week.

Big sigh.

It's funny. I have these really personal stories that I want to tell you - for instance I'd like to tell you about my day yesterday, which was so difficult in light of all of this that it was actually kind of hilarious - but I'm a little weary to do that out in the open on this board. Surely we can find a private space to connect, right? I'm gonna think on it.

I'm right with you on the psychological conditioning. Positively with you. And as much as it does feel like we're chasing our tails, it also doesn't. It's such a relief to have found you out in the world and I absolutely trust that we're going to figure this thing out.

I'll put a little thought into where we can talk without the world having access to our psyches, and either way I'll be back later on to post some more. Hope you're having a wonderful day Ms. Girl.

Here with You,

H. Trouble

[Guest]

Ok...um...last night...some crazy stuff went down. I'm starting to agree with you about not wanting to put such personal stuff out where everyone can read it, but this was the most significant event with this issue for me thus far, and I want to at least share something about it with you.

Remember how I said the only thing I hadn't done with this problem that I normally do with others was talk to him about it? Yeah well, that's no longer as true. (Oh alcohol...the great tongue loosener.) I finally cracked for the most part last night. I don't know if I ever really conveyed to him how much his sneezing is such a large part of the problem, but I definitely got out a lot of my problems with accepting this fetish. And for his part, he got in a couple of good rebuttals. For example, I was telling him that one of the main thing that I hate about this fetish is my inability to control it. That it just kind of interrupts my life when I'm least interested in feeling something like that. Then, somewhere later in the conversation when I'd brought up his sneezing more specifically he was like "You know what? I hate sneezing! I hate it." At which point I stop babbling and look at him in utter confusion, and then he proceeds smirk at me and say in a profoundly mocking way, "because I can't control it. It just happens to me whenever and I have no say in it but I have to deal with it." Odd parallel, isn't it? And what the hell do you say back to that? I think I just blinked at him for a few seconds. He also gets another 'stun' point for his reply to my admission of wanting to get rid of this so badly I'm about to go to a psychiatrist. Because he got really silent for a while, and then when I asked what was wrong he said it hurt him to see me reject a part of myself so thoroughly. Again, what do you say to that?

And the frustrating thing is, I KNOW he's right!! I know that if I've been this way for as long as I can remember, then I shouldn't be thinking that the way I am is wrong. It's just a part of me. It's not unnatural to be turned on by a sneeze, it's just uncommon. And maybe there is some key to this in his reply to my comment about control. Some people HATE sneezing in public. It makes them feel vulnerable and some even disgusting if they view it as a private bodily function. But they don't have a choice. Their body does it. And for us, we don't have a choice, our brains do it. My arousal when he sneezes is as involuntary as any other bodily function. Only it's my bodily function and isn't as common among the majority of others. So perhaps it's not out of place, then? I mean, as much as an unexpected sneeze is out of place, right? Something happens to their body, and something happens to ours in response. It's not inappropriate unless we make it so. Just like someone sneezing in public isn't inappropriate, unless they make it so. It's just something that happens, and it really all depends on what you read into it. Follow me?

And as for how we hate how much we're thinking about it afterward, perhaps someone who hates sneezing in pubic would be thinking about what happened for hours afterwards too if they were so thoroughly in conflict with the occurence. So maybe if we just acknowledge what's occurred (and if we take explicit notice of it, then that's just what happens) but we don't need to dwell any more than that afterwards because we can just accept it. It was a moment, it happened, we reacted, we move on. The response is just as much a part of us as the sneeze was for them. Something trivial that doesn't need to be made into a huge thing, because it isn't.

This is a new line of thought for me, and I'm actually kind of warming up to it. What do you think Trouble? I know this doesn't help us solve our jealousy issues, but does it shed a new light on the bigger problem for you at all?

Hopefully,

LG

[chui]

LG... while it might not have been the most comfortable of conversations to have, I think this has brought about new things for you to think about. Your BF seems like an amazing guy, especially by being concerned over you rejecting some part of yourself so thoroughly. It seems like he will stand beside you, irregardless of how you choose to proceed. And it really is a choice you have to make. There are ways to recondition the body, as you have both metioned before. But they are painful, and often traumatizing in their own right.

Each one of us has things about ourselves that we are insecure over, thinsg that we hate, and would change in a heartbeat if we could. Part of life is being able to think clearly about these things, and decide whether they are truly "bad things" which we should change, or simply another facet to ourselves which we need to accept. Only you can know, deep down whether something is truly detrimental to you, or whether you are allowing something to harm you. Whatever you decide, as I have said before, we are here for you, and will support you. It is never easy to face our fears, or to face those hidden and painful parts of our personality, but take some comfort at least, in knowing you are not alone.

[Having Trouble]

Hey Lost!

So glad to hear from you, and SO GLAD to hear that there's been a progression! Such great news. I'm so glad you had this conversation with your bf.

And this all makes a great deal of sense to me. I love that idea of our "involuntary response" to their sneezing. A back and forth, our bodies in communication with one another. And it's not unnatural, it's innate! And it's nice too, at times.

But you're right, it's all about our response to it. To the moment. If we can somehow re-pave the area of our brains that does whatever negative, or distressful, or downright illogical thing it does - well, I think that is absolutely step one. And while the jealousy issue, (and whatever other issues), take root in all sorts of stuff for us - well, maybe by considering what happens to us in arousal as affected by another persons sneeze as just a response - well, that could really be a starting point.

As in, really. I just kind of went down the rabbit hole with that thought. Because if we imagine ourselves as the point of chaos, (particularly when our SO's sneeze), but instead of chaos we just consider ourselves human, cellular, reactionary - then what we have is a lot like a knee-jerk reaction. And a pleasant one, at that. And no more than that. It's just a moment, and we're having a reaction. Move on. Then also might it be easier for us to start changing how that reaction feels to us? Like instead of it having to feel endless and awful at times, maybe it might be easier to steer that reaction back towards good? Because it's just this response that we have. And it's isolated in that way. You know?

Okay, I hope that I'm making sense here. I could go on and on but I think I may be falling asleep! I'm so happy that you've had this convo with your bf, LG. This is such an awesome step! Looking forward to talking more, as always.

HT

[Having Trouble]

Hey LG,

Hope I wasn't too crazy sounding in that last post. I think my utter exhaustion led to a little abstraction!

I'm still with this line of thought though. I'm really interested by it, and so far I do think it's helping to provide a prospective.

How are things by you?

Still Here,

HT

[Guest]

Hey HT,

Sorry it's been a while. My life kind of ran away with me for a bit. I'm SO glad my strange conclusion of my bf's off-handed comment struck up a little something with you too. As for attempting to put it into practice, I find thinking along those lines helps me not to worry about it happening as much as I did before. Whenever I start to dread it, I just tell myself, "so what?" 'If it happens, it happens, it'll be a moment, and I'll move on. It's not like he dwells on it or anything, I'm the only one making it a big deal.' I've successfully talked myself out of anxiety about it several times. BUT, I won't lie when I say when he actually did sneeze that took a much stronger psychology to overcome. (Ack, I'm using convoluted terms from my major/teacher. Silly actors, I know. When I say psychology in this sense, I mean your thought pattern/the way you think about things. Like repeating that little mantra from a few sentences before over and over and over again to myself as convincingly as I'm capable.) Luckily for me we were at a hockey game where our team had just won the Cup in the playoffs and it was so loud I couldn't hear it. But i definitely SAW it. After which, I had about 3 seconds of panic and then I turned my attention back to the game and forced my mind to downplay it as much as possible. And quicker than in the past for me, I thought my way back to neutral and moved on to enjoy the night.

Now here is where I suddenly become much less useful. Said bf is now gone. Moving on to start his career in a different state. So I won't have as many experiences for a while. (Although it's been a struggle for me in the past when he sneezes on the phone, and we're definitely still good friends, so I'm sure some agony will come of that unless I continue to successfully tame my brain in this manner.) But that doesn't mean I'm not still going to wrestle with figuring this out. I've got your back the whole way whether I'm removed a bit from it or not. Hopefully it won't be too much longer till we're members and can talk privately. Any success thinking of some other way to get in touch? My one thought was perhaps, if you have AIM, create an account with these names and list each other as friends then arrange a time to get on and chat.

<Speaking now to the gods of the forum: Chui, if that's not ok to say on here, I apologize. I hate to make you edit things for me if it's not allowed, but this doesn't seem as dangerous to me so I thought I'd try. Reeeeeeally sorry if I'm crossing a line again. >

OK, so, that said...I hope this line of thought yields as much to you as it has to me. It's a bit of a fight to maintain, but (Man, I can't believe I'm going to use the same teacher's methods twice in one night!) as my teacher likes to say in relation to behavior, "you can't tell someone not to do something, you can only tell them to do something else instead." So we can't tell ourselves not to think about it, because we know we will and then we get angry because we can't acheive what we want. But since we know were going to think about it (and short of getting rid of this fettish I don't think there's a way not to) we just tell ourselves to think about it differently. Work to change our psychology.

(Holy &*%$, I've just tied this fetish into the principles of Chekhovian acting. Lord help me I've just hit a whole new level of insane. )

Hopes she managed this entry without losing you to her oddly applied principles,

LG

[Having Trouble]

Hey Lost,

So much to say, but for now - yes! The AIM idea is perfect! Let's figure out when is best for us to meet up and talk! (I'm totally excited.)

And LG, I'm so sorry to hear that your bf is gone. I know that in a way it's okay, but I'm sure it must be difficult too. How are you feeling with all of it?

Just snuck online for a couple of minutes, so I'll write back later on! Thinking of you and hoping all is well.

HT

[Having Trouble]

Hey LG,

Hope all is well with you, and hope you're having a great week.

You are officially my new AIM buddy! ~ mod note: please don't post other people's usernames - if they want to share them, they can do so in their profile, but it's against the rules to post someone else's.

Let me know if that works! Looking forward to talking whenever.

HT

[Guest]

Hey HT,

Ok, so we'll see if we can say this. You'll have to find me, unless this gets edited too and then I guess we're really just stuck with waiting through this to talk more. I made a new account (my username for this site and then my member number following) I'll try to be on it more often so perhaps we'll be able to catch each other. I'm in EST, you?

LG