BUSTED and SUPER EMBARRASSED- and super long

[murphy dee]

1 minute ago, James (ellamalaka) said:

If calling me names and cursing at me makes you feel better then I encourage you to do so. If it doesn't then you should try something else, imo.

Ahh here we go, with the James Christ act.

[James (ellamalaka)]

Just now, murphy dee said:

Ahh here we go, with the James Christ act.

I can't think of anyone better to emulate. Can you?

[murphy dee]

1 minute ago, James (ellamalaka) said:

I can't think of anyone better to emulate. Can you?

I've read too much misogynistic filth from you to take this (or you) seriously.

[SneezyHolmes]

Just now, James (ellamalaka) said:

I can't think of anyone better to emulate. Can you?

@murphy dee This is coming from a man who treats women like shit. Of course he is not going to give a rats ass about this woman being sexualized in such a predatory manner. And before you even comment with "Where did I say I treat women like shit?", James, take a nice long look through your post history. You berate them constantly. What this man did was morally and socially wrong. If he wanted 'beat the meat' material, there is countless online/magazine outlets for that shit. Gtfo.

[lily96]

58 minutes ago, James (ellamalaka) said:

Anything in public is there for public consumption.

Yes, anyone can be photographed/filmed when they're in public, but there's a difference between taking a picture/video to post on Instagram with random people that happen to be in the background and taking a video of someone for your own sexual pleasure which is, by the way, considered sexual harassment 

[S_L]

1 hour ago, James (ellamalaka) said:

Legally, absolutely no laws were broken. No one has an expectation of privacy in a public place. You can take pictures or video of whatever or whomever you wish when they're in public. It doesn't matter the intent.

Socially is another question. I think the responses here show that.

This is wrong information and perhaps you have confused the internet with real life.

On the internet people choose to 'publish' material and sometimes (sadly) it then gets used in ways they might find degrading or ways that make them uncomfortable. But knowingly or unknowingly the person put themselves out to the world by publishing their youtube video, picture or whatever.

But in the real world, you CANNOT take pictures or videos of whatever you wish. A panoramic scene with random strangers in it, fine. Plonking yourself down on a bench in a park next to someone eating their lunch and filming them in close up for the next five minutes, clearly not fine. So of course everyone has expectations of privacy in public places. And in the latter example of course you are breaking the law, in pretty much any country. (In the UK it would be the Protection from Harassment Act, but I'm sure similar laws apply elsewhere).

[James (ellamalaka)]

5 minutes ago, lily96 said:

Yes, anyone can be photographed/filmed when they're in public, but there's a difference between taking a picture/video to post on Instagram with random people that happen to be in the background and taking a video of someone for your own sexual pleasure which is, by the way, considered sexual harassment 

No, it isn't and I urge you to cite case law to the contrary.

[James (ellamalaka)]

5 minutes ago, S_L said:

This is wrong information and perhaps you have confused the internet with real life.

On the internet people choose to 'publish' material and sometimes (sadly) it then gets used in ways they might find degrading or ways that make them uncomfortable. But knowingly or unknowingly the person put themselves out to the world by publishing their youtube video, picture or whatever.

But in the real world, you CANNOT take pictures or videos of whatever you wish. A panoramic scene with random strangers in it, fine. Plonking yourself down on a bench in a park next to someone eating their lunch and filming them in close up for the next five minutes, clearly not fine. So of course everyone has expectations of privacy in public places. And in the latter example of course you are breaking the law, in pretty much any country. (In the UK it would be the Protection from Harassment Act, but I'm sure similar laws apply elsewhere).

I'm not as familiar with the law of the UK, admittedly.

Seems like famous people would invoke such public-privacy against the paparazzi, don't you think? I wonder why they don't.

[S_L]

4 minutes ago, James (ellamalaka) said:

No, it isn't and I urge you to cite case law to the contrary.

Protection from Harassment Act 1997: Under this Act, it is now an offence for a person to pursue a course of action which amounts to harassment of another individual, and that they know or ought to know amounts to harassment. Under this act the definition of harassment is behaviour which causes alarm or distress. This Act provides for a jail sentence of up to six months or a fine. There are also a variety of civil remedies that can be used including awarding of damages, and restraining orders backed by the power of arrest.

[James (ellamalaka)]

1 minute ago, S_L said:

Protection from Harassment Act 1997: Under this Act, it is now an offence for a person to pursue a course of action which amounts to harassment of another individual, and that they know or ought to know amounts to harassment. Under this act the definition of harassment is behaviour which causes alarm or distress. This Act provides for a jail sentence of up to six months or a fine. There are also a variety of civil remedies that can be used including awarding of damages, and restraining orders backed by the power of arrest.

Yeah, like I said I'm not as familiar with UK law. Still, a quick search of your link brings up no mention of video or photography.

And why aren't famous people using this against the paparazzi in Britain?

[S_L]

Just now, James (ellamalaka) said:

Yeah, like I said I'm not as familiar with UK law. Still, a quick search of your link brings up no mention of video or photography.

And why aren't famous people using this against the paparazzi in Britain?

If you don't think sitting next to someone and filming them eat their lunch for 5 minutes does not amount to ' behaviour which causes alarm or distress. ' then I am afraid there is no point in continuing the discussion. Just admit you are wrong and didn't quite think through your original comment. It's okay to get things wrong, you know, we all do it.

[James (ellamalaka)]

38 minutes ago, S_L said:

If you don't think sitting next to someone and filming them eat their lunch for 5 minutes does not amount to ' behaviour which causes alarm or distress. ' then I am afraid there is no point in continuing the discussion. Just admit you are wrong and didn't quite think through your original comment. It's okay to get things wrong, you know, we all do it.

Well, I can't say that because given the amount of CCTV in London you'd be hard-pressed to ever do anything there that wasn't on camera. Given that, I'd say most people are quite comfortable with cameras and video and someone claiming such an everyday occurrence caused them some kind of anguish would never win in court. Seriously, claiming that video causes you anguish in London is akin to claiming that car horns cause you anguish.

I can tell you with certainty you could never sue someone (successfully) for the behavior you describe. Now. if you targeted them after they moved benches or clearly went out of a line of site that's different. But if you sat down in a public park and someone was filming you, you'd have no cause until you moved.

Any judge would just say,"if you were SO uncomfortable, why didn't you just move away?"

The fact is, people who videotape have rights just as much as people who eat lunch. The park is big enough for both and that's how the law (in the US, mind you) sees it.

 

Take OP's original example. It would be far different if he'd started up his cam, then followed the woman when she moved. He has a right to film or photo anything around him that's in public. He doesn't have a right to stalk or follow someone and film them, however.

What he did amounts to picking his nose. Gross, but not illegal. And he can do it and if you don't like it then move away. If he follows you that's a different story.

 

In the US right now we're *trying* to get more police to have body cams because it makes things safer. You can't sue cops because they're filming everything around them. Or a private citizen, for that matter. Google Glass, anybody?

Likewise, I urge you to get a dashcam, especially if you drive a lot.

[S_L]

I'm not commenting on the actions of the OP, I'm commenting on your point that 'No one has an expectation of privacy in a public place. You can take pictures or video of whatever or whomever you wish when they're in public' It would be a waste of my time arguing further with you, because you clearly don't have a basic comprehension of law or of what the term 'harassment' means, if you genuinely believe you could approach a random stranger and film them for 5 minutes directly in their face and the onus would be on them to move away if they felt uncomfortable.

I'm out of here ... the OP was at least drunk and acting on the spur of the moment (not that I'm saying this excuses his actions), you seem to be sober and rationally thinking through your bizarre comments in this thread.

[James (ellamalaka)]

20 minutes ago, S_L said:

I'm not commenting on the actions of the OP, I'm commenting on your point that 'No one has an expectation of privacy in a public place. You can take pictures or video of whatever or whomever you wish when they're in public' It would be a waste of my time arguing further with you, because you clearly don't have a basic comprehension of law or of what the term 'harassment' means, if you genuinely believe you could approach a random stranger and film them for 5 minutes directly in their face and the onus would be on them to move away if they felt uncomfortable.

I'm out of here ... the OP was at least drunk and acting on the spur of the moment (not that I'm saying this excuses his actions), you seem to be sober and rationally thinking through your bizarre comments in this thread.

 

Here's wikipedia on the subject:

"In general, one cannot have a reasonable expectation of privacy in things held out to the public"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expectation_of_privacy

Exceptions include public places that are specifically held for private purposes like bathrooms or dressing rooms.

 

And here's some commentary on a website for videographers:

"Surprisingly, the law states that no one should expect privacy in public places. The First Amendment protects free speech, which means that no law enforcement official can prevent the filmmaker from pursuing his activity on the street or anywhere else. But that also means that no private person may interfere with the movie maker."

 

https://www.videomaker.com/article/c19/13774-understanding-privacy-rights-of-your-subjects

 

In fact, it goes on to claim that even upskirt and downblouse videos are constitutionally protected:

"In Washington State, two men were convicted separately of taking secret fetish photos of women in shopping malls; one used a shoe camera to shoot underneath women's skirts, another shot "down the blouse" pictures. Both men were found guilty, but the Washington State Supreme Court overturned both convictions on constitutional grounds"

 

Worth pointing out that this article was penned by Mark Levy, a fairly well-known intellectual property rights attorney.

[murphy dee]

James is citing Wikipedia and I'm in heaven.  Thread over.

[James (ellamalaka)]

7 minutes ago, murphy dee said:

James is citing Wikipedia and I'm in heaven.  Thread over.

I'm glad you enjoyed it. My best to you.

[FadedRose]

Alright, y'all know there are videos like this on YouTube? Where people are being filmed sneezing out in public? Anyone out in public is risking that their every move is getting filmed. The woman is lucky he didn't post it anywhere. It's not against the law, so everybody just please chill. It was however a very disgusting and wrong thing to do. End of story.

[Anonymouse]

Cutekats, I'm sorry, but this isn't a "Why can't we all just get along?" situation. This is an individual who is old enough to know better who admitted to doing this without expressing remorse for the action, but rather for getting caught, feeling humiliated, and messing up his precious footage. I do agree we tend to pile on the comments when someone posts something like this but to me that is a sign that our community as a whole does not tolerate this kind of behavior, which is a good thing. I'm not going to tell people to shut up just because their sentiment was expressed a dozen times already - people have the right to express their feelings and show solidarity. People also have the right to dissent, but they should realize that they are in the minority and maybe there is a reason why most everyone else doesn't agree with their stance.

It's also not a "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" situation. There's nothing wrong with calling out someone's gross behavior, especially if they put it out there themselves, and especially when they apparently don't see the error of their ways and instead dismiss everyone's valid points as "anger issues." I don't appreciate you coming in here and telling people to chill out. It's the goddamn snake pit, if you want chill look elsewhere.

This wasn't a mistake made by an otherwise good guy. He knew exactly what he was doing and decided to risk it anyway. This kind of behavior is usually indicative of a stable personality trait and can only really be corrected if the individual accepts that they were wrong and actively works to change it. I'm sure Sneeze999 would be welcomed back if they were able to express genuine remorse and focus on changing their behavior. Instead they told everyone else they were the problem and flounced.

[FadedRose]

4 minutes ago, AnonyMeows said:

Cutekats, I'm sorry, but this isn't a "Why can't we all just get along?" situation. This is an individual who is old enough to know better who admitted to doing this without expressing remorse for the action, but rather for getting caught, feeling humiliated, and messing up his precious footage. I do agree we tend to pile on the comments when someone posts something like this but to me that is a sign that our community as a whole does not tolerate this kind of behavior, which is a good thing. I'm not going to tell people to shut up just because their sentiment was expressed a dozen times already - people have the right to express their feelings and show solidarity. People also have the right to dissent, but they should realize that they are in the minority and maybe there is a reason why most everyone else doesn't agree with their stance.

It's also not a "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" situation. There's nothing wrong with calling out someone's gross behavior, especially if they put it out there themselves, and especially when they apparently don't see the error of their ways and instead dismiss everyone's valid points as "anger issues." I don't appreciate you coming in here and telling people to chill out. It's the goddamn snake pit, if you want chill look elsewhere.

This wasn't a mistake made by an otherwise good guy. He knew exactly what he was doing and decided to risk it anyway. This kind of behavior is usually indicative of a stable personality trait and can only really be corrected if the individual accepts that they were wrong and actively works to change it. I'm sure Sneeze999 would be welcomed back if they were able to express genuine remorse and focus on changing their behavior. Instead they told everyone else they were the problem and flounced.

Thank you for that, although I didn't even finish reading it.

I honestly don't know why I'm still here. I'm going to go now. Have a wonderful day.

[SneezyHolmes]

18 minutes ago, AnonyMeows said:

Cutekats, I'm sorry, but this isn't a "Why can't we all just get along?" situation. This is an individual who is old enough to know better who admitted to doing this without expressing remorse for the action, but rather for getting caught, feeling humiliated, and messing up his precious footage. I do agree we tend to pile on the comments when someone posts something like this but to me that is a sign that our community as a whole does not tolerate this kind of behavior, which is a good thing. I'm not going to tell people to shut up just because their sentiment was expressed a dozen times already - people have the right to express their feelings and show solidarity. People also have the right to dissent, but they should realize that they are in the minority and maybe there is a reason why most everyone else doesn't agree with their stance.

It's also not a "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" situation. There's nothing wrong with calling out someone's gross behavior, especially if they put it out there themselves, and especially when they apparently don't see the error of their ways and instead dismiss everyone's valid points as "anger issues." I don't appreciate you coming in here and telling people to chill out. It's the goddamn snake pit, if you want chill look elsewhere.

This wasn't a mistake made by an otherwise good guy. He knew exactly what he was doing and decided to risk it anyway. This kind of behavior is usually indicative of a stable personality trait and can only really be corrected if the individual accepts that they were wrong and actively works to change it. I'm sure Sneeze999 would be welcomed back if they were able to express genuine remorse and focus on changing their behavior. Instead they told everyone else they were the problem and flounced.

Couldn't have said better myself. I have to ask how these people that are defending him would feel if they were put into the woman's shoes? I can almost guarantee it would be a whole different tune they'd be singing.

[James (ellamalaka)]

1 hour ago, AnonyMeows said:

Cutekats, I'm sorry, but this isn't a "Why can't we all just get along?" situation. This is an individual who is old enough to know better who admitted to doing this without expressing remorse for the action, but rather for getting caught, feeling humiliated, and messing up his precious footage. I do agree we tend to pile on the comments when someone posts something like this but to me that is a sign that our community as a whole does not tolerate this kind of behavior, which is a good thing. I'm not going to tell people to shut up just because their sentiment was expressed a dozen times already - people have the right to express their feelings and show solidarity. People also have the right to dissent, but they should realize that they are in the minority and maybe there is a reason why most everyone else doesn't agree with their stance.

It's also not a "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" situation. There's nothing wrong with calling out someone's gross behavior, especially if they put it out there themselves, and especially when they apparently don't see the error of their ways and instead dismiss everyone's valid points as "anger issues." I don't appreciate you coming in here and telling people to chill out. It's the goddamn snake pit, if you want chill look elsewhere.

This wasn't a mistake made by an otherwise good guy. He knew exactly what he was doing and decided to risk it anyway. This kind of behavior is usually indicative of a stable personality trait and can only really be corrected if the individual accepts that they were wrong and actively works to change it. I'm sure Sneeze999 would be welcomed back if they were able to express genuine remorse and focus on changing their behavior. Instead they told everyone else they were the problem and flounced.

This is NOT the snakepit and your comments are way out of line.

[James (ellamalaka)]

1 hour ago, sneezyholmes said:

Couldn't have said better myself. I have to ask how these people that are defending him would feel if they were put into the woman's shoes? I can almost guarantee it would be a whole different tune they'd be singing.

You tell me. You're being recorded in almost every public place already. How does it feel? Are you creeped out? Feel uncomfortable?

If I was in a place where a private individual was recording me and I didn't like it I would walk a few paces away from the camera. I don't like being recorded by people, either. But I can't force people to stop doing something protected by the 1st Amendment. I have to learn how to coexist with others and not trample on their rights.

[Rook]

James yes we are being recorded for our Protection repeat protection but this man did it for a good old fashion wank session, that being said he completely violated that women's right to privacy regardless of being in a public place there are things you just Don't do. *prepares self for fireworks popcorn anyone?*

[James (ellamalaka)]

5 minutes ago, batmansgirl said:

James yes we are being recorded for our Protection repeat protection but this man did it for a good old fashion wank session, that being said he completely violated that women's right to privacy regardless of being in a public place there are things you just Don't do. *prepares self for fireworks popcorn anyone?*

It's been well established that there is no right to privacy in public spaces.

So he didn't violate her right of privacy.

And as I said, I wouldn't have recorded her. But I also don't do things like fart in public which people find gross but are not illegal.

[SneezyHolmes]

5 minutes ago, James (ellamalaka) said:

You tell me. You're being recorded in almost every public place already. How does it feel? Are you creeped out? Feel uncomfortable?

If I was in a place where a private individual was recording me and I didn't like it I would walk a few paces away from the camera. I don't like being recorded by people, either. But I can't force people to stop doing something protected by the 1st Amendment. I have to learn how to coexist with others and not trample on their rights.

Where the hell do you live that people are purposely recording you solely to masturbate? Last I checked, I'm not a porn star so yes I would be creeped out by someone recording me SOLELY to beat his meat. And don't even give me that rights bullshit. No one has a right to record another without permission for pornographic intentions. At some point you have to realize what is morally and socially despite whatever the law says. It is disgusting that you're so determined to not see this from any other POV other than your typical, misogynist one.

And this woman couldn't. She was stuck on a subway! And she called him out on it but instead of atoning for his actions, he just shrugs it off. This behavior is practically entry level for much worse offenses. I can't even handle you, I have never met someone I dislike so much as I do you, James. Not one single person. And I never said I can stop it, I've merely been voicing MY opinion.

I have no intention of patting him on the back for violating her privacy. So you go ahead and continue blabbering your shit and I'll continue to criticize his predatory behavior as I see fit.